Labor warranty?

Hi, I was just presented with the contract by the installer I have been planning to hire for engineered wood installation. I have ordered the wood directly. The flooring comes with a warranty. The contract says nothing about a warranty on the installation; it refers only to there being no warranty on materials because the customer is supplying. I told the installer I won't sign it as is. He says the state mandates a one year warranty on labor, which I think it true...but that's a minimum, not a maximum. He's got a great reputation. I was afraid of this very issue - of getting caught between installer and manufacturer if there is a problem - and intended to get materials and installation from one place but that turned out to be more difficult and expensive. I can still do that if I have to; the material is supposed to be delivered on Wednesday but I can cancel it. I'm buying acacia from LL because they gave me the best price. I wanted 4mm but am settling for 2mm because of price.

Am I overly concerned? Should I ask for a longer labor warranty? What is the industry standard?

Please help...this is a major investment for me and I don't want to get it wrong.

LL?
Ugh, doesn't their warranty last for only 30 feet or 60 seconds, whatever comes first?

If you're going to have problems, I'd expect them to be evident long before one year passed. If you're expecting a 5 year labor warrantee... I've never heard of one.

djd1950 said:

Am I overly concerned? Should I ask for a longer labor warranty? What is the industry standard?

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The biggest thing that will affect your hardwood floors is how well your house maintains a stable environment for your wood floors. If you have sizable humidity swings, your wood floor will expand and contract with the swings. This means a tight floor for half the year and a gapped floor for the other half. There’s no way anybody in their right mind, manufacturer or installer, would offer you a warranty for that.

After that comes acclimation, stagger and nailing pattern. If you have a good installer these three are usually taken care of.

As far as warranty, you get a one year labor warranty and that’s it. If acclimation, stagger and nailing pattern are acceptable, you’ll be just fine.

Be prepared for lots of shorts from LL. (short pieces)

I’ve installed LL products before and not everything from there is garbage. The product is what it is but that’s not necessarily a bad thing if that’s what you’re looking for and it suits your wants, needs and desires.

Some products will have shorts, some might have loose T&G fittings, some might be bowed or warped. You can usually see and find any defects before the install starts and cull any problem boards and continue on as long as you have enough extra material.

To add a little different perspective...

...if a claim occurs due to a legit product problem, almost every major manufacturer that I'm aware of has a pro-rated labor warranty. Mohawk, Shaw, Mannington, AHF...all of them.

If the claim is legit and occurs within the first year, you get 100% of the labor - "IF" the floor was professionally installed. (If an end-user does a DIY, then no labor will be paid). If it's within the 2nd year, you get 50% of the labor and year 3 and beyond are 0% of the labor costs to replace the floor. AGAIN, that's if it's an actual manufacturing problem that's what the flooring manufacturer will cover. The manufacturer will cover the cost of ONLY their flooring beginning in year 3 through the stated warranty period.

This is why the industry standard is typically one year after install on labor. Even large multi-million-dollar projects that I've worked on only have a 1-year labor guarantee. This is typically stated right in the warranty documentation for the floor covering itself.

Anything beyond a year and the flooring installer would be sticking his neck out on a chopping block to cover a problem out of pocket for a potential manufacturing issue that they have no control over.

Edit: Additional opinion based on 30 years experience...

this is also why purchasing anything based on a warranty is typically a waste of time. There are so many ways for the manufacturer to point the finger at installation and just as many going the other way that it turns into a never ending struggle. Now, I deal with claims on a daily basis for our entire company. While our main vendors are pretty fair in their claims, I've seen it get nasty. The only sure fire way to get a manufacturer to take care of a problem is to threaten a law suit. Most manufacturers know they don't stand a chance in a local court against a local resident in front of a jury. Plus it costs too much.

My problem with L&L, is the fact that it is just a rebranded Lumber Liquidators. They were caught lying on imported wood, using toxic sealers which are outlawed in the states, repackaged Chinese crap in made in America boxes, etc, right?

I've lost faith with them. You can change the name, or put lipstick on a pig, but all in all, it is still a pig.

havasu said:

My problem with L&L, is the fact that it is just a rebranded Lumber Liquidators. They were caught lying on imported wood, using toxic sealers which are outlawed in the states, repackaged Chinese crap in made in America boxes, etc, right?

I've lost faith with them. You can change the name, or put lipstick on a pig, but all in all, it is still a pig.

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Sounds like it might be changing again soon. The guy that originally founded the company who got ousted along with several of their officers in an embezzling scam several years ago has formed a financial group and has bought back a majority of stock to force out the current board and retake control of the company. That's back when they used to buy off goods and very subtly mention it in tiny writing that they were selling off goods, and since it's a lesser grade wood you may need as much as 50% additional to actually finish the job... Oh, the tangled webs we weave. If the takeover is successful, it'll be interesting to see if they rebrand again or stay with LL.

How about Lumber Liquidators NAI
(New and Improved)

I think simply having ‘liquidators’ in your name already implies that you’re getting some sort of less than product.

Just curious, have you guys seen any of the Shaw owned direct stores in your area? We had one open up Northwest of us and man did that totally Pi%# off some folks.

Commercial Floor Rep said:

Just curious, have you guys seen any of the Shaw owned direct stores in your area? We had one open up Northwest of us and man did that totally Pi%# off some folks.

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Is that Spectra?

C.J. said:

I think simply having ‘liquidators’ in your name already implies that you’re getting some sort of less than product.

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Years back, a local contractor's business went by Bent Nail Construction.
...yeah, he was that good.

Commercial Floor Rep said:

Just curious, have you guys seen any of the Shaw owned direct stores in your area? We had one open up Northwest of us and man did that totally Pi%# off some folks.

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Like Carpet One?