Cement basement floor woes

[MommaSarge2]

Hi! I have very limited funds, and a house that was built on a leveled-portion of slope in 1923. The slope has caused some settling and my main issue now is the cement floor in the basement, buckled and cracked deeply in many places.

What's my least expensive option to getting to a new floor? How much does it cost to rip it out and replace, versus trying to seal the cracks (I am getting Radon down there) and then float a wooden floor over it on shims and 1 by 2"s?

 

[rugaddict]

kinda need more info---is the cement really cracking or is it just expansion joints---can you lift out peices of cement? all cement moves--it expands and contracts with changes in heat and humidity---if expansion joints are not put into the cement---the cement puts then in itself--leveling can be done a few different ways but its only as good as what you go over---if the cement is really a complete mess you might need a new slab and thats over my pay grade

 

[MommaSarge2]

No, it's really broken, enough to lift out some pieces, cracked deep enough to see dirt in others. I asked someone else about remove/replace and they said I was talking over $5000, which is NOT going to happen. So now I need an alternative.

I wonder if this will buy me five years or more? I'm thinking to use Patch product in the cracks and maybe cement for the actual few holes - then poor a resin product to seal for moisture and vapor. Then cover with a vapor barrier plastic and lay the 1 X 2 grid in sections, leveling as I go with shims. I'll still probably have to build down a 3 - 4 inch step somewhere, the slope is that bad, but it would give me SOME level surfaces, right? And this at least seems like a solution that could be worked in sections as I have means - if it will work.

 

[highup]

What is the basement used for now?
What is the room going to be used for?
Have the joint's moved a lot in the past couple of winters, or has this been gradually getting worse over the years?
I am assuming that the basement /foundation is at least partially notched into the hillside? If so, are there cracks in the foundation and walls too?

 

[TNT]

No, it's really broken, enough to lift out some pieces, cracked deep enough to see dirt in others. I asked someone else about remove/replace and they said I was talking over $5000, which is NOT going to happen. So now I need an alternative.

I wonder if this will buy me five years or more? I'm thinking to use Patch product in the cracks and maybe cement for the actual few holes - then poor a resin product to seal for moisture and vapor. Then cover with a vapor barrier plastic and lay the 1 X 2 grid in sections, leveling as I go with shims. I'll still probably have to build down a 3 - 4 inch step somewhere, the slope is that bad, but it would give me SOME level surfaces, right? And this at least seems like a solution that could be worked in sections as I have means - if it will work.

You seem to have been doing research and have some knowledge of what needs to be done. I'd just skip a lot of what you said and use a self-leveler. What are you planning to put on the floor after all that?

TNT ~Tia & Tommy

 

[highup]

You seem to have been doing research and have some knowledge of what needs to be done. I'd just skip a lot of what you said and use a self-leveler. What are you planning to put on the floor after all that?

TNT ~Tia & Tommy

Hopin Momma will post back with more info such as the size of the area. I'm betting a lot of that $5000 estimate she got is materials.

 

[MommaSarge2]

Thanks for these good posts! I will measure and get back to you on that.

The basement had a very amateur attempt at "finishing" -- but the walls that were put up to hide the original stone/brick foundation walls are not well done, the dropped ceiling is a joke and the floor was simply covered with cheap carpet. They didn't even properly cap the old sewer backup, and the day I had final walkthru, the guy who was doing my Radon inspection found the carpet was soaked with sewage. I was able to get the homeowner to remove the carpet as part of closing, but that only exposed how bad the floor was.

Honestly, I nearly walked away and sometimes I still think I should have done, but slowly I am getting things up to code and feeling more comfortable.

I would LIKE to be able to let the basement to students at the local university - with the half-bath down there, it also makes good overflow for when my son and his family come up. I currently have my sewing room down there, but that will move up to my daughter's room when she marries and moves out next year.

Mostly I just want to be able to put furniture, shelves, etc. in place without shimming everything!

 

[MommaSarge2]

I did not see any foundation cracking from the outside, the inside walls are covered by the build, but in the bathroom at least, there is one crack, not very bad, no loss of mortar, but it is there.

I believe the basement was dug in to the hillside. The house was originally level out to about 15 feet beyond the back door. But the hillside has definitely settled and the patio is dropping - the gravel under the pavers that make up the patio have been washing out. I know, another project. Yay!

 

[highup]

Regardless of the inside concrete floor cracks, it would be good to discover the reason for the settling.
Water draining from the downspouts goes where? Into a drain pipe and away from the house, or into the ground right against the foundation?

If the patio is settling, maybe the rain soaks in on the lower side of the house through those pavers and is part of the problem. I'm no engineer, but I think you need to get some advice to ensure the settling issue is under control to prevent more damage. That kind of advice you can't get here........ we're flooring installers. You need someone with an engineering/geology background to advise you. It would be nice to at least have someone look at the ground slope and draining issue to make sure it's not a major issue.
My reasoning is that it might not be good to proceed fixing the floors, then having the settling issue continue to cause damage.
I may be over thinking this issue, but not knowing your actual circumstances and history of the settling............... I'm pokin around in the dark.

My big question would be, has the settling gotten worse in recent years........ or has it been slowly getting worse since 1923?
I'm betting you don't know the home's history and haven't lived there since 1923.

 

[Incognito]

You need a new concrete slab before you should consider any kind of floor covering.

There's not going to be a Mickey Mouse solution that won't waste your time and money--------and then you'll be right back where you started if not worse off.

I'm not a concrete guy but I have formed, mixed, poured, screeded and finished a few thousand square feet of concrete. A couple thousand for myself on the patio and around the pool and then I've helped most of my neighbors with sidewalks, patios and an odd slab here and there.

It's possible if you could compact the existing, cracked unlevel slab down secure enough plaster it with concrete glue and then go right overtop with a new 4" slab that would obviously go much deeper where the slope is now.

Get some MORE concrete contractors over there with ideas and estimates. I don't know what part of the country you're in but most of the skilled trades are overflowing with talent desperate enough to give you a really good deal if you find the right kind of crew.

 

[MommaSarge2]

Thanks to both of you - excellent points on both posts.

I think the settling has been gradual, but lately the water runoff in the backyard has seemed to be worse, so I think you are right about focusing there first - I'm working on a retaining wall to keep the upper level where it is, but it's hard work and I'm 30 percent disabled so it takes me a long time to level the ground enough for the install of the first row. If I just had some money instead of sweat equity, I could get a lot done quickly!

I guess I do need to make sure the replacement gutter gets installed next - hard to find someone to install 2nd floor gutters for a reasonable price.

Re the compacting - hadn't really thought that far yet, but that is a good point I have to remember - to make sure that whatever I do, the bottom layer is stable.

What might be a good [temporary (like for 2 years) solution, while I stabilize the yard and redirect water? Right now, I have a layer of moisture barrier film, then double pad and rescued carpet, but it's pretty lumpy. Is there something not too expensive that could help me level for now?

 

[Incognito]

.

What might be a good [temporary (like for 2 years) solution, while I stabilize the yard and redirect water? Right now, I have a layer of moisture barrier film, then double pad and rescued carpet, but it's pretty lumpy. Is there something not too expensive that could help me level for now?

**********************
The bast advice I can offer is to forget about any kind of floor covering if you're short on funds to properly correct the defects in the slab. Focus on the concrete problems-----and the whole CAUSE of those issues. You really need some expert concrete/structural guys in there, not so much us floorcovering experts.

I can't think of any product or preparation/leveling/underlayment system that is going to work given the description you gave of that concrete in your basement. Without any disrespect I think you've got the worst conditions I've ever heard of for someone considering putting down a floor covering. I'm kind of astounded that you think there's a cheap way around. Hopefully I'm wrong and someone knows something I don't and can help you out better than I. Good luck

 

[TNT]

You may be very surprised at what fixing the gutters may accomplish. We got our current house 4 years ago and always had water leaking into the basement. Got new gutters and that has never, ever happened again. Also, removed the bushes by the foundation prior to the new gutters. Apparently, the roots holding water by the foundation makes a difference as well. Makes sense to me. It worked! Totally dry basement now.

Tia

 

[MommaSarge2]

Oddly enough, water IN the basement (except for the sewer backup pipe) has never been an issue. But I agree that I need to make sure that the problem is resolved before I try to cover it. I have a friend who's husband is a structural engineer, and I'm bribing them with a gourmet meal to come and walk the foundation with me... thanks for all the posts, you confirmed what I was suspecting, that the issue was bigger than the seller wanted me to believe... so many times I wish I had not come back to the table that day at closing, but it's too late to cry over spilt milk. Now I just have to do the best I can with what I have.

Thanks so much, everyone!

 

[highup]

On the bright side, should you ever sell the house, you can do so with a clear conscience.
........ hmm, now what kind of food do engineers like?
I'm hoping he'll have better news than you are expecting. Getting the floor and foundation stabilized may be as simple as drainage. With the exception of the gutter way up there in the sky, maybe you can pick away at the drainage system to get water further away from the house if that ends up being the fix.
Good luck.