Newly installed floors do not have consistent expansion gap

[TheSJ]

I recently had floating vinyl plank flooring installed by a professional crew. I noticed that the manufacturer's stated expansion gap along the perimeter was not followed. It varies. In some spots it is greater than 1/4" and others it is less than 1/4". In some spots it is approximately 1/2" and in some spots it is touching the baseboard. Shoe moulding still needs to be installed, but I don't want to do that until I get a definitive answer on the expansion gap.

The manufacturer states:

"We require a ¼” expansion gap around the entire perimeter of the installation, any transitions to adjacent flooring materials, door frames, and heating vents. It is recommended to undercut doorjambs so the material slides easily under them. A ¼” (6.35mm)expansion space is necessary here as well. If the door casings are metal the ¼”(6.35mm) expansion space can be filled using a silicone or acrylic silicone caulk. Please note the expansion gap must be maintained past the edge of the door jamb.

I assume this will cause problems?

If I have them come back out to inspect what I am talking about, what is the proper way to correct this?

 

[highup]

A lot of that depends on how large of an area the flooring was installed in. It should not touch the baseboard.
The gap does not seem to be flawlessly consistent. If it is it shows that the installer cared about what he was doing. Half an inch is a bit on the sloppy side. If the room is small then slightly less than 1/4 inch would work, but it shouldn't touch the baseboard.

 

[C.J.]

Bigger gap doesn’t matter as long as base or 1/4 round covers the gap. No gap may or may not matter depending on the size of the layout as mentioned previously. Could be the floor shifted and needs to be shifted back. Or where there is no expansion gap, one may need to be cut in. It’s an easy fix that definitely could and should have been avoided in the first place but unfortunately that’s just how things are these days at a lot of places even from so called ‘professional’ installers. Everybody and their grandmother thinks they are a professional installer when it comes to click floors. That’s how much the product itself has been dumbed down. Everything else still requires an actual professional to obtain professional results.

When the installers show back up ask them if this is what you do for a living or if this is just what you are doing right now to make a paycheck. Go ahead and be a dick about it. Tell em I said so.

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

Well, said @C.J.

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

@C.J. have you ever used a toe kick saw to adjust a gap like this after the fact? Those saws can be a bit tricky and kick back sometimes if you're not careful so I was just wondering if you ever tried it and how it worked if you had.

 

[C.J.]

@C.J. have you ever used a toe kick saw to adjust a gap like this after the fact? Those saws can be a bit tricky and kick back sometimes if you're not careful so I was just wondering if you ever tried it and how it worked if you had.

I have and it works great. I use it on walls that have bows n shit in them. Put a spacer piece of wood against the wall and run the saw along that to follow the contour while getting a perfectly consistent gap.

Yes those saws are definitely dangerous. In fact dangerous is an understatement. Use both hands with a firm grip, don’t twist the saw, move slowly and wait until the blade comes to a complete stop before lifting the saw out of the cut. If the wall bows you will have to make multiple cuts. Cut as much as you can until the wall curves. Stop the cut and reposition the saw then continue. You may have to do this multiple times but that’s just what it takes to do the job safely and correctly.

Realistically with a click floor I would scribe the wall then unclick the rows that need to be trimmed, trim them then click them back in. Nail down hardwood is where I would break out the toe kick saw.

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

Thanks for that feedback. Much appreciated. I wondered how well it worked. Those saws make me nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I hate to even sell one, but they are a time saver but you have to be very vigilant and I don't think I'd hand it to a helper, unless you didn't like him.

 

[Mark Brown]

They aren't so bad if you use them for what they are for. They aren't strong like a 7.25" or the Crain undercut. You can hold against the kick pretty good.

What isn't safe is when I bought a toe kick saw blade and attached it to an angle grinder. This prompted me to buy the right saw....

 

[C.J.]

The toe kick saw is a very specific tool for a very specific purpose, cutting up against toe kicks. It stays in my van 364 days of the year. It only comes out when necessary and there is often times another, less dangerous, tool can be used to accomplish the same task unless that task is cutting up against toe kicks. If you’re not careful it will kick like a mule.

 

[Mark Brown]

I can't even remember the last time I took mine out of storage and frankly that suits me just fine

 

[MikeAntonetti]

I never had an issue with kickback from them, I abuse the hell out of that saw, wonder about radial arm saws, are they still around or too dangerous?

I thought about the circular blade on an angle grinder, all my guards are in the trash or garage, I picture serious digits removed, no way in hell is that anywhere near safe.

Harbor Freight sells kicksaws, got another one when cabinets are on top of hardwood. Two hands is the trick to control ,be careful if material has pressure (bind)

like those illegal fireworks today in los angelos
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/01/us/los-angeles-bomb-disposal-truck-explosion/index.html

 

[C.J.]

They have saw blades specifically designed for radial arm saws and sliding compound miter saws now. The blade tips have a negative? hook angle to them so they don’t make the saw want to pull into the work piece. Haven’t tried one yet. I’m a fan of the ATB (alternate tooth bevel) blades. They give a nice clean cut as well as I tend to bring the slide all the way out then drop it down and cut on the way back making multiple shallow cuts in thicker pieces of wood.

 

[highup]

There's also one called a triple chip.
I bought three of them at the habitat store for I think, three bucks apiece. They had aluminum residue on them. I believe a zero rake blade.
I put one in my chop saw and cut a piece of hickory trim
When I said the pieces back together it looked like they hadn't even been cut.
The blades are made for aluminum hard plastics and other hard materials.
I don't think it would work very good for ripping a 2x4. It's the fifth blade shown here. I looked up the ones that I bought from habitat and new, they're probably around 90 bucks for an eight and a half inch blade.

https://www.toolstoday.com/t-sawbladeterminology

 

[C.J.]

I recently picked up two new blades. The Forrest Chopmaster is a 4-1 and the Freud LU series is just an ATB. The teeth are fat and gnarly. Decent ATB as well. I wanna say 15• off the top of my head. Plenty of material for several resharpenings. Both blades are full kerf. Less deflection during cuts means truer cuts for tighter miters. Freud has a high ATB blade that I would really like to try but that will have to wait for a bit, got some personal business to tend to so work is on hiatus right now.

I equate blades to tires on a vehicle. Better tires mean better performance. The tires that come on a new car generally suck. Same thing with a blade that comes with a new saw. I do save those blades though for those times when I need a trash blade. Maybe you need to cut some cement fiber material. That’s a blade killer. Perfect place for a junk blade. You have different tires for different purposes. Same thing with blades. You wouldn’t rip a 2x4 with the same blade you would rip a sheet of melamine.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Here is a blade I got for my grinder. I don't think it would work for a toe kick saw but is served the purpose I got it for, cutting out a tree root lifting the corner of my garage.

 

[highup]

You might want to rethink using that.
If I had one I'd smash it with a hammer and throw it in the trash can.


Type in the words stumpy nubs accident with grinder
The episode on the stumpy nubs woodworking channel is called:
How to shred four fingers with a woodworking power carving disc

 

[DarisMulkin]

actually It has done its job and am done with it not planning on using it anymore. Besides it is duller than dull now.

 

[Steve079]

I still have my first toekick saw, it was a mandrel that came form Gundlach, and mounted on an electric drill. less torque then the new ones, it can still kick back, but not as violently as those bigger new Crains.

When the installers show back up ask them if this is what you do for a living or if this is just what you are doing right now to make a paycheck. Go ahead and be a dick about it. Tell em I said so.

Wish I could like and laugh at this one...

 

[highup]

actually It has done its job and am done with it not planning on using it anymore. Besides it is duller than dull now.

Honestly, I'm glad to hear you say that. I think I posted this video a while back.
This guy does a YouTube woodshop program that is fantastic advice on anything related to woodworking. He's top-notch not just in his show but his advice.
Watching that video just made me cringe. Even in slow mo that tool took off like a rocket.

 

[MikeAntonetti]

We watched videos in school wood shop and carpentry class of finger removals, then the Navy of mishaps, drunk driving. I say they’re effective, we need more examples. Like don’t get a vaccine and a patient in Massachusetts gets 4 limbs amputated.