Tarkette Fiberfloor seams

[highup]

Years ago, Grandpa used to do seams in cheap Congoleum and Mannington sheet goods by fully gluing the seam area, then doublecutting and carefully removing the cut off now wet scrap piece from under the seam....... then sealing the seam.
Does that procedure work with IVC and Tarkett products that are glued with PS adhesives and using the release or "let it dry" process? I have used the wet set most of the time and done the seam section separately.

I ask because of a time issue. Customer bought some 8 foot wide Tarkett sheet goods. It shoulda been 12', but he bought it at a discount place, Only 8' wide for some reason, so anyhow a hand full of long seams and wanting to speed the job up.
Can I full spread the seams, let the adhesive dry, then double cut the seam and pull out the scrap?
Guys mom died an the house is gettin sold asap.

 

[Jon]

Years ago, Grandpa used to do seams in cheap Congoleum and Mannington sheet goods by fully gluing the seam area, then doublecutting and carefully removing the cut off now wet scrap piece from under the seam....... then sealing the seam.
Does that procedure work with IVC and Tarkett products that are glued with PS adhesives and using the release or "let it dry" process? I have used the wet set most of the time and done the seam section separately.

I ask because of a time issue. Customer bought some 8 foot wide Tarkett sheet goods. It shoulda been 12', but he bought it at a discount place, Only 8' wide for some reason, so anyhow a hand full of long seams and wanting to speed the job up.
Can I full spread the seams, let the adhesive dry, then double cut the seam and pull out the scrap?
Guys mom died an the house is gettin sold asap.

Don't know about your glue as we use acrylic glues with full spread
I just spread the glue drop in wet, double cut, pull bottom off cut out, then push down into the same glue, the glue I use one needs only a smear to hold. Thats it End of story. Do not even bother with a seam sealer as the sealer does not stick to the vinyl these days
You wanna hand to lay it?

 

[highup]

Don't know about your glue as we use acrylic glues with full spread
I just spread the glue drop in wet, double cut, pull bottom off cut out, then push down into the same glue, the glue I use one needs only a smear to hold. Thats it End of story. Do not even bother with a seam sealer as the sealer does not stick to the vinyl these days
You wanna hand to lay it?

Preferably two hands Jon. Never seen a one handed flooring dude.
I have however seen examples of work that appear to have been performed by one handed, blind and herbally "impaired" installers.
Most adhesives I believe are acrylic, but most here also say it's preferable to let the adhesive dry. They call em pressure sensitive......... a word I hate like bee stings. .......arrgh!
I'm using IVC Flexitech adhesive. It's acrylic............. and supplied by the customer. He bought materials and sealer from a retailer. Sealer is Taylor 2062.
Jon, about the dry set.......... the let it dry method. The material can be pulled out of the adhesive then layed right back down because it has properties like a Post it Note.......... always sticky, but always releasable.
I figure cutting seams would work just as you do (and Grandpa did) with wet set, only no chance of mess from wet adhesive when you pull the strip out.
I just don't understand waiting for 1 /2 of a sheet to dry, then the other half, then fold back the seams and to those last............ way to much time watching the grass grow whilst the adhesive dries.

 

[Jon]

You are only cutting 1/4 inch or so on most vinyls these days on one side of the join as most rolls we get are cut down to 2m wide from the factory so therefore there isn't too much glue and it does wipe off with a damp rag
Would not like to try it with dry glue as it would be hard to get the bottom bit off and likely to leave a lump with reglueing Our glues stick when dry

 

[Nick]

I did it like Jon does ..

 

[Floorist]

I have always used seam sealer on Flexitec. But I follow the instructions and let the adhesive set up before I lay down the vinyl. If you do it wet and it ever has to come up, the plywood will need to come up with it.

 

[highup]

You are only cutting 1/4 inch or so on most vinyls these days on one side of the join as most rolls we get are cut down to 2m wide from the factory so therefore there isn't too much glue and it does wipe off with a damp rag
Would not like to try it with dry glue as it would be hard to get the bottom bit off and likely to leave a lump with reglueing Our glues stick when dry

I have always used seam sealer on Flexitec. But I follow the instructions and let the adhesive set up before I lay down the vinyl. If you do it wet and it ever has to come up, the plywood will need to come up with it.

12 year old mobile home with particle board and I don't care.
Neither does the owner. Next owner will most likely install carpet over this area......... it's a living room, small dining area and hallway.
Just discovered it's Domco, not Tarkett Fiberfloor. (Yes I know Domco-Tarkett)
Domco however makes 8 foot goods.......... I did not know that. Haven't even heard the word Domco for 30 years.

 

[Nick]

Nor i, Thought they went out of business years ago ..

 

[Floorist]

Still made in Canada?

 

[highup]

Nor i, Thought they went out of business years ago ..

3rd largest vinyl flooring company in North America.
http://floorbiz.com/Biz/BizProfile.asp?CompanyID=62897

Still made in Canada?

I'll find out tomorrow morning if the person on the phone sounds Canadian.

 

[Nick]

3rd largest vinyl flooring company in North America.
http://floorbiz.com/Biz/BizProfile.asp?CompanyID=62897


I'll find out tomorrow morning if the person on the phone sounds Canadian.

If he says Hey a lot at the end of a sentence, He is ..

 

[highup]

If he says Hey a lot at the end of a sentence, He is ..

Nope, clear plain old English, no dialect er nothin......
He said Domco? There ain't no stinkin Domco.
That link I showed. I didn't look to see if it was dated anywhere.
The guy said Tarkette owned the Domco name but it's no longer used on their products and hasn't been for some time. He was also confused as I was about the product being 8 feet wide.
.......as they say, film at 11:00.

 

[Floorist]

Sounds like a 12' piece that had a flaw 8' into the width.

 

[Ernesto]

I always used to do seams areas first then work away from them. But that was 30 years ago. The idea was you could check out your cut seam dry laid first to insure perfection, then lay it.

 

[highup]

Sounds like a 12' piece that had a flaw 8' into the width.

Pattern match is 6'6" across and the factory edge is 2" from a pattern line, so it's really a 13'2" or thereabouts with 13 feet between the pattern lines.
It's a wood pattern and the lines dividing the "wood" planks is the width of a line drawn with a Bic ballpoint pen. This is going to be interesting.

IVC adhesive was sold and I never noticed it's supposed to be primed on wood.
Anyone ever primed a floor before installing a pressure sensitive adhesive?
I have some acrylic mortar admix which I'm sure would do just fine................ but that's one more step in the process and it has to dry too.
I did a test tonight after work on a scrap of underlayment (1/4" birch plywood) I rolled on, the let the adhesive dry for 45 minutes. If I press hard on the vinyl, then pull it loose, the adhesive does seem to pull loose from the plywood slightly leaving a bubbly texture.
I don't recall using IVC much, and I never read about priming wood surfaces until now.
Maybe that's why I always opted for Tarkett adhesive.

Acceptable Underlayments
• Wood underlayment
Wood underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and warranted
by the manufacturer. Always fasten underlayment panels in accordance with the manu-
facturer’s recommendations. Any failure of the underlayment or IVC US flooring as a
result of the underlayment is NOT the responsibility of IVC US.
• Concrete
• VCT
(well bonded, on and above grade)
• Ceramic
(well bonded) with a skim coat
• Terrazzo
(well bonded)
• Self-leveling and patching compounds
(latex fortified Portland cement based only)
• Resilient floor
(no more than 2 layers, well bonded, non-cushioned – residential
applications only)
• Radiant heat floors
(not exceeding 85°F (29°C) and approved by the manufacturer for
the use of their product with resilient vinyl flooring applications)
• Gypcrete
can be utilized when necessary due to radiant heat and in high rise buildings.
Gypcrete must be sealed using
IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
to stabilize the sur-
face for adhesive bond. All issues with gypcrete cracking, crumbling, powdering and
resulting in the release of adhesive bond are
NOT
warranted by IVC US.
• OSB
(underlayment grade)
OSB underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and warranted by
the manufacturer. Underlayment panels and joints must be fastened and reinforced ac-
cording to manufacturer’s instructions. Completely sand the floor with a floor sander, so
that the floor is smooth and flat.
Note:
The chips in OSB overlap. Without sanding
properly, OSB has high and low spots throughout the floor that could telegraph
through the vinyl.
- Surface must be primed using IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
.
•
Particle board
(underlayment grade)
Particle board underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and
warranted by the manufacturer.
- Surface must be primed using IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
.
Floor Preparation
Floor must be clean, smooth, flat and dry. Remove all foreign substances such as wax,

 

[Jon]

I always used to do seams areas first then work away from them. But that was 30 years ago. The idea was you could check out your cut seam dry laid first to insure perfection, then lay it.

Would never think of doing it way
What happens if the vinyl moves?

 

[Jon]

Pattern match is 6'6" across and the factory edge is 2" from a pattern line, so it's really a 13'2" or thereabouts with 13 feet between the pattern lines.
It's a wood pattern and the lines dividing the "wood" planks is the width of a line drawn with a Bic ballpoint pen. This is going to be interesting.

IVC adhesive was sold and I never noticed it's supposed to be primed on wood.
Acceptable Underlayments
• Wood underlayment
Wood underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and warranted
by the manufacturer. Always fasten underlayment panels in accordance with the manu-
facturer’s recommendations. Any failure of the underlayment or IVC US flooring as a
result of the underlayment is NOT the responsibility of IVC US.
• Concrete
• VCT
(well bonded, on and above grade)
• Ceramic
(well bonded) with a skim coat
• Terrazzo
(well bonded)
• Self-leveling and patching compounds
(latex fortified Portland cement based only)
• Resilient floor
(no more than 2 layers, well bonded, non-cushioned – residential
applications only)
• Radiant heat floors
(not exceeding 85°F (29°C) and approved by the manufacturer for
the use of their product with resilient vinyl flooring applications)
• Gypcrete
can be utilized when necessary due to radiant heat and in high rise buildings.
Gypcrete must be sealed using
IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
to stabilize the sur-
face for adhesive bond. All issues with gypcrete cracking, crumbling, powdering and
resulting in the release of adhesive bond are
NOT
warranted by IVC US.
• OSB
(underlayment grade)
OSB underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and warranted by
the manufacturer. Underlayment panels and joints must be fastened and reinforced ac-
cording to manufacturer’s instructions. Completely sand the floor with a floor sander, so
that the floor is smooth and flat.
Note:
The chips in OSB overlap. Without sanding
properly, OSB has high and low spots throughout the floor that could telegraph
through the vinyl.
- Surface must be primed using IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
.
•
Particle board
(underlayment grade)
Particle board underlayment panels must be underlayment grade as specified and
warranted by the manufacturer.
- Surface must be primed using IVC FLEX-PRIM Acrylic Latex Primer
.
Floor Preparation
Floor must be clean, smooth, flat and dry. Remove all foreign substances such as wax,

And who reads all that?
Just lay it with acrylic glue wet
Most 3m wide vinyls we get here are actually 4m wide split down so one has to cheat on the match cause the correct match, the left over 1m piece has been cut off and in another country

 

[highup]

Would never think of doing it way
What happens if the vinyl moves?

He did it that way because he was chicken to cut the seam correctly on the first attempt.
He could keep cutting seams time after time until one of them turned out nice, the glue it together.

 

[Ernesto]

He did it that way because he was chicken to cut the seam correctly on the first attempt.
He could keep cutting seams time after time until one of them turned out nice, the glue it together.

Half the width out on either side it won't move, but laying it back in without it moving is the same as laying wet to the seam, it can move on ya either way,. My way is safer and won't contaminate the seam edge with glue.

 

[highup]

And who reads all that?
Just lay it with acrylic glue wet
Most 3m wide vinyls we get here are actually 4m wide split down so one has to cheat on the match cause the correct match, the left over 1m piece has been cut off and in another country

What are the vinyl brands and adhesives you use Jon? Do some or all of the adhesives you use even mention the dry method, ..............but nobody down there uses that method? ...even tho it says to? Are your adhesives referred to as "PS or pressure sensitive"
I'm guessing that our adhesives are most likely acrylic too, but we are told to use the dry method much of the time.
My confusion Jon, is the word acrylic. I don't believe it's a generic term usage wise Lot's of adhesives are acrylic based, but not sure if you can lump all of these adhesives the same and they will all dry, cure and perform in the same way. Epoxy in that generic sense can work well on metal, but perform terrible on plastic, and so-so on wood.
I'm thinking 'acrylic' is the same.............. it behaves differently depending on it's makeup, intended usage, performance expectations and design.................... not that it won't actually stick to stuff.
The adhesive I used is designed to be installed dry. They have a different adhesive if you want to go wet set.