Vinyl plank Issue

[JCobb]

So I am installing a 5 mm glue down vinyl plank from a company that will remain nameless and I am having some issues. The primary floor is 3/4 plywood with 3/8” subfloor over top. Adhesive is Henry 695 being put down with a 1/16 square notch trowel. I usually let the adhesive flash off till it’s got some good legs before installation. My problem is that I am getting a few corners that are not going down. The product is cupped up a bit straight out of the box. I am by no means new to flooring, but there is a few too many corners that aren’t stuck down for my liking. It has a been a bit since my last flooring seminar, but I seem to remember that there could be issue with the layers of the vinyl plank not being put together evenly? This is the start of a large job, so I really don’t want to be fixing corners for the next 3 months. On the last unit I let the adhesive fully flash to pressure sensitive and it seemed to help a bit. First pic is dry laid, second is an example of a problem corner.

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

To paraphrase one of the most knowledgeable people in the industry, Lew Migliore - If it's not right coming out of the box, adhesive isn't going to overcome physics. If the product is curled coming out of the box, it will eventually lift back out of the adhesive. With heat and pressure plastic can develop "memory" so that it always wants to return to that "mis-formed" condition. If this was stored wrong, it could have developed a memory and continue to have problems.

I'd say stop and pull in the powers that be and have a pow wow until a decision is reached on how to proceed. Don't take the responsibility on your shoulders for the manufacturer's bad material. Get the rep involved and make sure everything is documented.

In my experience of having been involved with some pretty expensive claims, that looks like a possible high dollar claim that could be lurking down the road. Address it now because it's only going to get more expensive the more you install.

 

[JPfloor]

I agree. That’s an obvious defect in my book. I definitely wouldn’t install without an ok from a shot caller and some signed releases.

I remember a number of years ago we did a couple of big jobs with some Shaw PVC backed carpet tile. The corners all started curling about a month after they were installed. Shaw made good on the replacement which now included lifting partitions and being installed after hours. From what I heard they sent out a lot of that defective material. Cost them millions from what I was told.

 

[JCobb]

I agree. That’s an obvious defect in my book. I definitely wouldn’t install without an ok from a shot caller and some signed releases.

I remember a number of years ago we did a couple of big jobs with some Shaw PVC backed carpet tile. The corners all started curling about a month after they were installed. Shaw made good on the replacement which now included lifting partitions and being installed after hours. From what I heard they sent out a lot of that defective material. Cost them millions from what I was told.

We had a Shaw ecoworx product do that a couple of years ago as well.

 

[Incognito]

Had 40K square feet of linoleum tile I rejected and sent back to the dumpster because that weak-ass lino paste could not get the seams to lay flat. We had to do the tile job wirth sheet goods and do all the patterns by hand cutting off the 100' rolls

 

[Jon]

Had 40K square feet of linoleum tile I rejected and sent back to the dumpster because that weak-ass lino paste could not get the seams to lay flat. We had to do the tile job wirth sheet goods and do all the patterns by hand cutting off the 100' rolls

You get the good ones Incognito

 

[Incognito]

You get the good ones Incognito

That actually turned out GREAT for me. We had to wait a few weeks for the roll goods to be shipped in from Italy (if I remember correctly). By then the other trades were 99.9% done and gone. That's near unheard of in new construction. We got change orders on the leveling/prep (not nearly enough) and the manufacturer had to cover the costs from a tile install to heat welded linoleum with miles of seams

 

[JCobb]

Had 40K square feet of linoleum tile I rejected and sent back to the dumpster because that weak-ass lino paste could not get the seams to lay flat. We had to do the tile job wirth sheet goods and do all the patterns by hand cutting off the 100' rolls

Wow that’s some cupped marmo tile.

 

[Jon]

That actually turned out GREAT for me. We had to wait a few weeks for the roll goods to be shipped in from Italy (if I remember correctly). By then the other trades were 99.9% done and gone. That's near unheard of in new construction. We got change orders on the leveling/prep (not nearly enough) and the manufacturer had to cover the costs from a tile install to heat welded linoleum with miles of seams

Looks good to me
Just wondering if you found the laying quicker in the sheet form than playing around with individual tiles

 

[Incognito]

Looks good to me
Just wondering if you found the laying quicker in the sheet form than playing around with individual tiles

Not faster doing the sheet if you have to heat weld all the seams as well. For me, Tile Jockey who grew up sling VCT in supermarkets, schools, hospitals, military/government buildings anything in a box is faster than anything in a roll---------as a first principle, not an absolute one.

When you have to get something like that with all the seams done in a relatively short period of time you will be stuck with..............."less than ideal" quality workmen, at least a few. Which means we'd not want to net fit all the seams the way real pros would. I didn't want to heat weld at all and I have no problem making lino seams even with my eyesight problems back then (two cataract surgeries). I actually got a decent bunch of installers for that job. My boss didn't want to risk NOT welding the seams.

I don't recall any substantial punch list on that job other than doctoring up a handful of botched welds. at least a mile or two of heat welding there. At least that's how it seems thing back.

 

[Incognito]

Wow that’s some cupped marmo tile.

Tarket linoleum tile. Never had any problems whatsoever with Marmoleum or Marmoleum tile from Forbo,

 

[highup]

Wow.
....the jobs you accomplish scare the crap out of me. Nice work. I wouldn't know where to start.

 

[Incognito]

Wow.
....the jobs you accomplish scare the crap out of me. Nice work. I wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks.

I always start in the same mindset with doing it right like I see when I follow your posts. I've already got one foot out the door planning a second career so it's exciting to put an end to THIS nonsense and start fresh with some new, different nonsense.

Besides that crazy lino tile job that got switched out to sheet lino the next craziest has to be that 8' x 4" by 3/4" solid bamboo glue down where the boss didn't bid any leveling/floor prep.

When you start crazy you kind of have to stay crazy right through.

 

[highup]

Do you always bring along a couple tons of tile to your glue down installations?

 

[Incognito]

Do you always bring along a couple tons of tile to your glue down installations?

Poor apprentice boy.........you KNOW it was 75% his job to hump those across the floor every day.

Nice kid.........except that he's a convicted felon and shortly thereafter violated parole-----domestic abuse.

So besides being a tattoed-up gang member, degenerate alcoholic and wife beater............he was a really nice kid. I sure wont miss ALL of my union brothers when I retire next month.

 

[Incognito]

Getting back to the MORAL OF THE STORY.

When you see the material is garbage or the floor is not up to scratch it's still generally POSSIBLE to make the installation work. You might just need 100 ctn. VCT weighting down the seams into the glue overnight.

So just factor that into your labor costs. It is what it is

 

[C.J.]

when I retire next month

I know you’re no dummy. What are you retiring to? You got a dream job lined up already. Or you sellin and gettin the heck out of Cali?

 

[highup]

Poor apprentice boy.........you KNOW it was 75% his job to hump those across the floor every day.

Nice kid.........except that he's a convicted felon and shortly thereafter violated parole-----domestic abuse.

So besides being a tattoed-up gang member, degenerate alcoholic and wife beater............he was a really nice kid. I sure wont miss ALL of my union brothers when I retire next month.

I knew something was up but I didn't know what.
They've always said nice guys finish last. It's got to suck when you have somebody that shows up and does their work but then you discover to have some...... dark s*** that they can't control.
I'm thinking of retiring soon myself.
But first I've got to run for president and win, so I can get a lifelong income and security detail for 4 years of work..

 

[Incognito]

I know you’re no dummy. What are you retiring to? You got a dream job lined up already. Or you sellin and gettin the heck out of Cali?

I'll keep busy and make some money LIGHT AND LOCAL.

No more busting my ass, crawling, eating dust and driving 100 miles a day through SoCal.

No, I love California, warts and all and will not move from the new house I bought in 2016 and put near $200K into. I'm very content here.

 

[highup]

I'll keep busy and make some money LIGHT AND LOCAL.

No more busting my ass, crawling, eating dust and driving 100 miles a day through SoCal.

No, I love California, warts and all and will not move from the new house I bought in 2016 and put near $200K into. I'm very content here.

People like you are the state's only hope.