What Gives?

[Jon]

I was meant to start this restaurant last weekend but the builders haven't even put up the gib board on the walls yet. One needs the gib on the walls so the vinyl coves up. I was told as the job is behind the lino layer can work at night while the painters work during the day
Here one can't get a lino layer for love or money while painters are a dime a dozen.
How come the lino layers are always expected to do the stupid hours? We are the ones in short supply Not the painters
We have to get ourselves higher up the food chain and make the other trades play our game
Don't know what happened to laying the restaurant but I don't want to know any part of it as I will not work in these conditions on a metreage rate. Its gunna be a s... fight

 

[Floorist]

Installers are treated the same way here Jon. We are the necessary evil, workers to be tolerated.

 

[Nick]

I'd tell them what i wanted a yd for night work, Take it, or lump it.

 

[Jon]

I'd tell them what i wanted a yd for night work, Take it, or lump it.

It ain't gunna happen with me Nick
Don't forget I aren't a young fella like you

 

[Nick]

Has nothing to do with it Jon, Night work pays more here .
Have your boss call me .

 

[Incognito]

Has nothing to do with it Jon, Night work pays more here .
Have your boss call me .

Agreed there's a fair price for 2nd and 3rd shift work and I can be persuaded with the right price. It's all about the money but I REALLY would rather not work nights at AT ALL. Sad to say though out here what they offer (and my union signed on to) is a meager 20% over scale. I don't find that to be even close to fair compensation considering what re-arranging your life, sleep, meals, appointments-------to adjust to sleeping when everyone else is at work. When I've done it I wouldn't see my wife nor kids for weeks on ends aside from in passing if they woke me up on accident or I stumbled to use the rest room whilst they were getting dressed and running out.

When I started the trade in Connecticut 34 years ago our Local got DOUBLE TIME for working nights. Gradually even there it went down to time and a half. I was kind of shocked when I found out the California Local had agreed to time +15%. They recently bumped that up to 20% because a lot of guys felt like I do and refused the work.

But that 15% was SUPPOSED to apply only if the shop guaranteed you a full 40 hours for that work. It was considered shift premium. They couldn't just send you out on Tuesday night for a couple day job and get that "discount" rate. If they did that they'd owe you time and a half and then double time past midnight. Very few shops were held to that (enforcement) so it became the NORM for them to abuse that agreement. I couldn't deal with working 6PM-2AM and then when the job is done or on hold you really can't work the next day so you lose those hours. It happened all the time. But it's even worse when they REALLY want you to go in the next morning and you REALLY have to be there at 6AM. It's fuckin' nutz. I'm not 22 years old anymore. Let the "kids" play that game.

If the money were right I'd suck it up and deal with it. But for 20% and totally disorienting your sleep schedule? F that nonsense.

 

[Nick]

Agree with you on night work Incognito.

When i lived on Long Island I built and sanded Bowling alleys In the summer , When winter came they wanted you to work night work. So i did flooring in the winter .
That night work messes with your internal clock.

 

[Floorist]

I hated night work. When doing churches we would start around 10 on wed night when they finished services and would have to be done before Sunday morning. We would work 16-20 hours a day. Also did stores that were open, always had to be done at night and whatever you started had to be finished before 8 am. Leave that for the young guys.

 

[Jon]

A few years ago I got asked to do this job starting at 6pm and working though to 6 am. for 3 nights a week for 4 weeks I thought great as I was doing a retirement village in my spare time. I had the keys so I could just come and go so I could do some during the days
Wrong When I got home the lawn mowers, birds squawking, telephones ringing etc etc and it was hot as it was summer
Anybody asking me to work at night would now have to pay a decent days money the day before, at least double what the job is worth, then 2 days money when the job is finished. The last time I suggested these prices they decided that the job could be done through the day

 

[Incognito]

Back when the union would get us double time for nights on occasions where the super would suggest we work nights I would always refer him to the office to authorize the change order for the labor premium and that would back him down every time. They just didn't want to pay the double time regardless how far behind schedule they were with other trades still obstructing the flooring project.

So we'd play this game of us showing up on site and then walking off and charging them a "trip charge" for half a days pay repeatedly til one of us gave in.

They don't really care if we sleep, eat, see our families.......live or die. They simply don't care.

 

[Jon]

Back when the union would get us double time for nights on occasions where the super would suggest we work nights I would always refer him to the office to authorize the change order for the labor premium and that would back him down every time. They just didn't want to pay the double time regardless how far behind schedule they were with other trades still obstructing the flooring project.

So we'd play this game of us showing up on site and then walking off and charging them a "trip charge" for half a days pay repeatedly til one of us gave in.

They don't really care if we sleep, eat, see our families.......live or die. They simply don't care.

That's my logic
Once one talks big money the flooring doesn't seem to be as important any more and it can wait
Funny if I wont a plumber or other trade
We Don't work weekends

 

[Jon]

Update
Got a phone call yesterday as another layer is laying this job during the day now but when he unrolled the rolls of vinyl he got this. To me they will never lay flat and through my contacts they are trying to replace these rolls of vinyl with a different product but its Sunday here
http://www.responsiveindustries.com/canopus-plus.aspx

 

[Jon]

Another update
The Auckland manager of another flooring importer is ringing all of his staff to find keys so our layer can get some replacement rolls today.
How many of your flooring suppliers would go to this trouble to help out a retailer as it wasn't his vinyl which was faulty?
Most wouldn't even answer their phones until Monday

 

[highup]

Pretty smart guy. Now somebody owes him back big time.
..............or maybe his wife wanted to go shoe shopping and an emergency came up at just the right time.

 

[Jon]

Update
I emailed the vinyl manufacturer asking when these rolls of vinyl would flatten never expecting a reply
He sent me this

[ame]http://vimeo.com/46347119[/ame]

Fine it only now takes 3 times longer to lay than similar products

 

[DarisMulkin]

I'm thinking I would leave that product on the dock. Or call them and have them send over a tech person each time to take out the bubbles. See how long it takes them to discontinue that product.

Daris

 

[Nick]

I couldn't get through the complete . Are they Nuts ?

You let them know we get paid by the yard ?
I with Daris . We have to take a stand somewhere .

 

[Jon]

When I first saw this vinyl the other day I asked on of my friends who is a retailer with a very good name in NZ if he had seen or laid this vinyl. He has about 30 layers working for him
When we talked he said he refuses to lay it and when I asked him what he thought of the video he emailed me back
"Hi Jon – Be like me and refuse to install it – That way no one will want to import it."

 

[Incognito]

When I first saw this vinyl the other day I asked on of my friends who is a retailer with a very good name in NZ if he had seen or laid this vinyl. He has about 30 layers working for him
When we talked he said he refuses to lay it and when I asked him what he thought of the video he emailed me back
"Hi Jon – Be like me and refuse to install it – That way no one will want to import it."

I'd have to call my boss with the pictures. He'd forward those to the rep, manufacturer or distributor. We wouldn't do anything more than a back roll or two before either getting a P/O (change order) for extra labor if they wanted to encourage us to go through all that rigamaroll with the heat, weights and twisting it back into shape. After we made reasonable efforts to allow the material to acclimate, relax and lay flat with re-rolling and........whatever I'd eventually STILL have to make the up or down judgement call as to try to lay it or walk off. I'd call my shop owner or dispatcher and explain my reasons if I were going to refuse to install before I drove off. THEY have the final say. If for whatever reason they insist I'm off the hook.

"Just do your best" is something I hear quite often and 9 times out of ten it's something I can make work-----only a matter of time and materials EXTRA to the contract.

 

[Jon]

I'd have to call my boss with the pictures. He'd forward those to the rep, manufacturer or distributor. We wouldn't do anything more than a back roll or two before either getting a P/O (change order) for extra labor if they wanted to encourage us to go through all that rigamaroll with the heat, weights and twisting it back into shape. After we made reasonable efforts to allow the material to acclimate, relax and lay flat with re-rolling and........whatever I'd eventually STILL have to make the up or down judgement call as to try to lay it or walk off. I'd call my shop owner or dispatcher and explain my reasons if I were going to refuse to install before I drove off. THEY have the final say. If for whatever reason they insist I'm off the hook.

"Just do your best" is something I hear quite often and 9 times out of ten it's something I can make work-----only a matter of time and materials EXTRA to the contract.

My friend was way up in the training and was also on the executive of our Flooring Assoc which is where I met him so he is not just a layer with a grudge He is a retailer who suppliers listen to. That's why I will always ask him with any problems
AS a PS
If the manufacturer has to make a video showing how to flatten the vinyl there is gunna be heaps and heaps of these rolls around not just the ones we got