basement Flooring Help (moisture concerns).

[DjEclipse]

Hi all,

I have a small area of floor in the basement of my rental that i want to lay some kind of floor on to make it feel less like a basement and more like living space.

It currently has those glued on industrial tiles that you see in stores like wallmart etc. They are in good condition but don't look good.

The house is 80 yrs old, ceilings aren't very high and the floor is sloped to a drain in what used to be an old shower that I am turning into a closet with shelves. Because of the slope in the floor I am limited to what I can install in there (carpet is out as it doesn't last long in a rental).

I have installed the trafic master allure in another rental above grade and it seems to be holding up well and the floor doesn't have to be level for this installation. But I have read that installing the traffic master allure in basements can lead to mold growing under the flooring. I have also been looking at laminate and hope the floor slope is ok.

I am lost as to what to do, I have had moisture problems in the past coming up fro under the slab along one wall. I installed a sump pump and french drain along the wall and it seems fine now. So my concerns about moisture are what is stopping me from jumping into the flooring and researching as much as I can.

I taped down plastic over a small area of the floor to let it sit for 24hrs and see if any moisture collects on the plastic, tonight I will check it. But I did this on top of the industrial glued down tiles that are there already, I'm not sure if the results will be accurate still?

I am confused about laying down 6mil poly under what ever flooring I choose as won't that be the same as just instaling the waterproof traffic master allure flooring and result in mold growth?

The area is only 150 or so sqft.

If possible I would like to go with laminate or traffic master allure due to it's ease of installation and ability to be laid down on an un level floor.

Any help thought's, next steps are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[highup]

Hi all,

I have a small area of floor in the basement of my rental that i want to lay some kind of floor on to make it feel less like a basement and more like living space.

It currently has those glued on industrial tiles that you see in stores like wallmart etc. They are in good condition but don't look good.

The house is 80 yrs old, ceilings aren't very high and the floor is sloped to a drain in what used to be an old shower that I am turning into a closet with shelves. Because of the slope in the floor I am limited to what I can install in there (carpet is out as it doesn't last long in a rental).

I have installed the trafic master allure in another rental above grade and it seems to be holding up well and the floor doesn't have to be level for this installation. But I have read that installing the traffic master allure in basements can lead to mold growing under the flooring. I have also been looking at laminate and hope the floor slope is ok.

I am lost as to what to do, I have had moisture problems in the past coming up fro under the slab along one wall. I installed a sump pump and french drain along the wall and it seems fine now. So my concerns about moisture are what is stopping me from jumping into the flooring and researching as much as I can.

I taped down plastic over a small area of the floor to let it sit for 24hrs and see if any moisture collects on the plastic, tonight I will check it. But I did this on top of the industrial glued down tiles that are there already, I'm not sure if the results will be accurate still?

I am confused about laying down 6mil poly under what ever flooring I choose as won't that be the same as just instaling the waterproof traffic master allure flooring and result in mold growth?

The area is only 150 or so sqft.

If possible I would like to go with laminate or traffic master allure due to it's ease of installation and ability to be laid down on an un level floor.

Any help thought's, next steps are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Let us know what results you get.

Those tiles you have will allow moisture to migrate into the air via all of those "seams" between the tiles.
If you install a floor covering like a sheet of vinyl, the moisture will now be trapped beneath the vinyl flooring and the slab with no place to escape.
It will just build up under the new flooring.

Laminate floors have wood based cores. If you have a known moisture issue, I'd avoid them.
Yes the 6 mil plastic will keep the moisture at bay and protect the flooring if done properly, but the moisture will migrate to the sides..... meaning up and into the sheetrock. Not so sure this is a good idea.
Give us your results.
The floor doesn't have to be "level", but it has to be extremely "flat" ........people confuse those words, and it is very important to understand the difference.

 

[FloorMaven]

If you have 80 year old VA tile that's still bonded installing allure won't give you a problem.

 

[highup]

If you have 80 year old VA tile that's still bonded installing allure won't give you a problem.

He'll need to say or guess about how old the tiles are. 9' or 12"?

I am worried about the word "slope" that he mentioned and also the word drain too. Not good combo if the slope is concave and heads to a source of water or moisture.
Let's see what new info he comes back with. ........good call tho.

 

[DjEclipse]

Hello again,
Thank you for all the replies.

I went home last night and both spots that I taped the plastic down had 0 condensation after 24hrs, they were bone dry. I had even turned off the dehumidifier during the 24hrs.

The only area that isn't covered by the tiles is in the former shower (now closet) with the floor drain in the middle. I taped a smaller piece of plastic down in the shower area next to the floor drain, I will leave it down for 48 hours and see what I get.

FloorMaven, yes the tiles are still glued down and sticking, there are some that I can probably pry up if I really tried but there are none that are coming up easily.

I don't know the age of the tile but I don't think they would be original, did they have those type of tiles 80 years ago? I think it is 12" but I never really thought to check. I used the tiles when figuring out square footage and just assumed they were 12". I ill measure tonight when I get home form work.

The floor is relatively "flat", it just slants slightly towards the floor drain in the old shower, and dips a little more when it gets closer to the shower, this is the area I am most concerned about being level enough for the interlocking laminate. There are a few areas where the tiles aren't flat but I can use my grinder and make them flat in a few minutes.

The drain it self is inside the shower which I will probably leave concrete and just paint it as I don't want to cover up the floor drain. I was thinking about installing the floor right up to the middle of the shower doorway and then putting in a regular door to finish it off as a closet.

highup,
So you are saying that if I get no moisture on the plastic test I am good to go? Should I try and get those tiles up or can I lay the 6mil poly on top and then the floor? And if I go with the traffic master allure flooring do I need the 6mil poly?

I read on here that mod needs "food" to grow and if it is just moisture between the concrete and the 6mil poly then it won't have any "food" and won't grow and this is the reason for needing it under any type of flooring?

Thanks again.

 

[highup]

I am way to accustomed to thinking laminate flooring and I mistakenly commented with that in mind.

I discovered this, but didn't see mention of floor conditions..... I'll keep looking.
http://courtneycsolomon.writersresi...ENG_430_Instructional_Document.pdf?1291999046


If no moisture issues, you might just be good to go.

Old tiles on the floor could contain asbestos, so not good to sand down. You might buy a bag of a cement based floor patch and flatten out any high areas that way.

 

[Ernesto]

Better read the allure installation requirements.

 

[FloorMaven]

The floor is relatively "flat", it just slants slightly towards the floor drain in the old shower, and dips a little more when it gets closer to the shower, this is the area I am most concerned about being level enough for the interlocking laminate. There are a few areas where the tiles aren't flat but I can use my grinder and make them flat in a few minutes.

You can use temporary shimming to level off the slope. Careful about grinding the old tile it may contain asbestos.

 

[Ernesto]

I love doing Allure inspections.

Plastic Mat test is a bad idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAIjz9IoP1Q&feature=youtu.be

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/72/72845250-3948-4c77-824f-50f17da70f63.pdf

 

[DjEclipse]

Hi again,

Thank you for all the replies.

The tiles are 12x12 so I assume they aren't asbestos, I've seen almost identical tiles in home depot.

Ernesto,
What do you mean by "I love allure inspections"? Are you implying it is a bad product to lay down in a basement over concrete?

Subfloor Preparation: Allure can be installed over most existing floors including
wood, vinyl, linoleum, ceramic tiles and concrete. All subfloors must be sound,
solid and have little flexibility. Tolerance is 3/16” over 8’.

6. Approved Subfloors:
 Concrete: Any large cracks or voids must be filled with a cementitious
patching/leveling compound. ( over 1/8” x 1/8”)
Please note: Allure is water resistant and will withstand holding water for
short periods of time if the product is installed properly. Allure is not flood
proof! Allure is not meant as water proofing material nor a solution for
moisture. Moisture intrusion is a totally different situation that can arise with
new and old concrete that exhibits very high levels of hydrostatic pressure in
combination with very high levels of alkalinity. This combination provides a
substance that is highly corrosive. No floor covering including Allure can
withstand the long term corrosive nature of this chemical. Hydro static
pressure exceeding 8 lbs using the calcium chloride test method and or a P.H
test indicates alkalinity levels in excess of 9, steps must be taken to separate
Allure from the source of the corrosive effect of this chemical. Excessive
moisture in the subfloor can cause mold and mildew, and other moisture
related issues including but not limited to trapping of the moisture emissions
under Allure. Under these circumstances the concrete needs to be treated with a floor sealer that seals the concrete under the 8 lbs. or a moisture/vapor barrier (6 mil poly) is installed. This is necessary to avoid the corrosive effects. Newly poured concrete floors must cure for a minimum of 90 days. It is the responsibility of the home owner and the installer to make sure that any moisture or alkalinity issues are resolved prior to installing Allure.

So it is established that the 6mil ploy and duct tape to floor test isn't very good, can I get the calcium chloride test at home depot? I don't see it on their website.

Or if I just lay down the 6mil poly under what ever floor I lay down will that be good enough? I feel more confused now than when I asked the questions here.

I also found out that I need about 800.00 of work on my chimney, a rain cap and to redo the mortar so this project may be put on hold.

 

[FloorMaven]

The tiles are 12x12 so I assume they aren't asbestos, I've seen almost identical tiles in home depot.

VAT became readily available in a 12"x12" format in the mid-60's.
http://www.asbestosresource.com/asbestos/tile.html

There's no way to tell without lab testing. To knock down some high spots you're better off misting with water and flattening with a hammer. Vacuum and Fill the voids where necessary. Try to avoid dry grinding.

 

[highup]

The poly isn't duct taped to the floor, is simply lays there. Using tape means you would have to cut holes in the poly, creating a way for moisture to intrude. Here's a profile of the floor with the poly installed. It runs across the floor and up the wall a few inches. Before installing the base, you may need to trim it down so that none of it shows, but it needs to run up the wall a little so moisture doesn't get into the flooring from the edges........... any moisture will vent upwards or outwards.
My diagram shows a thicker product, but same procedure is used for the poly.
Blue is sheetrock, red is poly, brown is the framing, but I assume your walls are concrete?


It can be sort of tricky using poly because it makes the flooring move or slide around a lot more, especially when you get started with the first few rows. It's just an annoyance, but poly will prevent moisture from damaging the floor.
The 12X12 tiles like the ones in Home Depot have been used for many years, so they may still contain asbestos. If they were installed 10 or 15 years ago, they won't.

 

[FloorMaven]

I've never seen documented evidence supporting the theory that MVE travels horizontally.

 

[highup]

I've never seen documented evidence supporting the theory that MVE travels horizontally.

I've never looked for any. I just assume, because I have seen moldy sheetrock after removing trim from such an installation. Maybe any 'migration' is only close to the perimeter of the room.

 

[DjEclipse]

VAT became readily available in a 12"x12" format in the mid-60's.
http://www.asbestosresource.com/asbestos/tile.html

There's no way to tell without lab testing. To knock down some high spots you're better off misting with water and flattening with a hammer. Vacuum and Fill the voids where necessary. Try to avoid dry grinding.

Ok so I should just assume that the tiles are asbestos just to be safe. There are only a few spots that are a little raised, I can try the wet and hammer down method.


highup,
The duct tape I was referring to the moisture test, not the installation.

Also, if the moisture doesn't travel horizontally, will it now be trapped under the 6mil poly and turn into mold? I know that no matter what, some moisture will come through the concrete regardless.

 

[highup]

Ok so I should just assume that the tiles are asbestos just to be safe. There are only a few spots that are a little raised, I can try the wet and hammer down method.


highup,
The duct tape I was referring to the moisture test, not the installation.

Also, if the moisture doesn't travel horizontally, will it now be trapped under the 6mil poly and turn into mold? I know that no matter what, some moisture will come through the concrete regardless.

You might wipe the floor down with diluted Clorox solution, then dry it well using a fan.
If some of the tiles chip out into pieces, be sure to use a cement based filler, not a white gypsum filler such as Fixall.

A calcium chloride moisture test would mena removing some of the tile and grinding the adhesive to expose bare concrete. I don't think you want to go that far. Test kits also mean you need to have a good gram scale to weigh the test material.

If you left that plastic down for a few days and detect no moisture at all, I'd think you are safe to go, but the poly is added insurance.

 

[DjEclipse]

Ok, thanks.

To recap I should use the 6mil poly on the floor and up along the edge of the walls to under the baseboards.

I should install the floor over the existing tiles, not remove them, don;t grind them as they may contain asbestos.

Now I guess I just have to pick what floor to use, traffic master allure vinyl flooring or some laminate.

 

[FloorMaven]

I'd recommend Allure over 6 mil as in the pic. Vinyl tile is a much better option in a basement rental than is laminate.

 

[Ernesto]

Like your garbage can. Whuts up with the heat gun?

 

[highup]

Like your garbage can. Whuts up with the heat gun?

I'm thinkin he puts it on the fan setting to blow the garbage can out of the way.

Good photo to show what's supposed to be going on.

Do you always keep that many rows in progress?