Desperate for Laminate Advice

[workingjoe2001]

We bought a house 18 months ago and had a Mohawk Barrington laminate put down throughout. Within a few months the floor began to make a popping, clicking noise everywhere. Very noticeable and obnoxious. The flooring store was very helpful and came out and put a new floor down in one of the bedrooms to see if we had received a "bad batch" of the Mohawk. But in a few weeks that one started making noises too! The flooring store suggested we switch to a wider, thicker plank and, at no charge to us, came out and re-did the same bedroom with the new flooring. Guess what...it has been a month and it is beginning to make the same noises.
We thought the problem might be moisture - but they took moisture readings before they installed and we used a plastic barrier. (BTW our sub floor is concrete).
We thought the problem might be an uneven sub floor - but the noise is throughout the house...not in just a few certain areas. And the store claims they corrected any uneven areas before they installed it the first time.
We thought the problem might be that we might have runs of laminate that are too long without transitions - but even small 10x10 ft bedrooms have the same problem.
The flooring store will come out and do whatever we wish in order to correct the issue, but I don't even know what to request! I'm out of ideas.

 

[Ernesto]

Joe Mohawk utilizes the UNICLIC locking mechanism of which I have never had an issue with since inception. Others, yes.
If your putting in different floors with a 6 mil vapor retarder and still having noise issues with both floors I'd have to say it's installation related. Call Mohawk and request an flooring inspector come out.
I'd also like to hear about that moisture test, like CaCl, meter or relative humidity.
If the flooring moves underfoot then thats either a locked in condition ie; lack of expansion space or buckling, moisture causing extreme expansion. Many reasons for that like not properly taping seams in underlayment/vapor retarder.
I've gone through entire ranch style houses with no T-molds in doorways. It can be done!
Did they undercut doorway casings and trim or cut around them?

 

[workingjoe2001]

Joe Mohawk utilizes the UNICLIC locking mechanism of which I have never had an issue with since inception. Others, yes.
If your putting in different floors with a 6 mil vapor retarder and still having noise issues with both floors I'd have to say it's installation related. Call Mohawk and request an flooring inspector come out.
I'd also like to hear about that moisture test, like CaCl, meter or relative humidity.
If the flooring moves underfoot then thats either a locked in condition ie; lack of expansion space or buckling, moisture causing extreme expansion. Many reasons for that like not properly taping seams in underlayment/vapor retarder.
I've gone through entire ranch style houses with no T-molds in doorways. It can be done!
Did they undercut doorway casings and trim or cut around them?

We actually picked Mohawk because of their good reviews.
We already had a Mohawk rep come out and inspect and they grudgingly gave us the money to replace the floor. But I think their assumption was that we had received a bad batch with faulty locking mechanism. This seems unlikely at this point.
As for the moisture test. All I know is that they told me they had tested it and it was fine. Should I ask the store for more info? What should I be asking for?
All of the doors have a transition piece. I think the flooring goes under the casing. I watched as they pulled up baseboard...there was plenty of room for expansion.
Do you think moisture is the most likely culprit?

 

[rugaddict]

noise---squeaks clicks pops--means movement---your floor is either moving up and down---i.e. improper floor prep---laminates require a nearly flat floor---or moving side to side---faulty product most likely the click mechanism--i assume your floor only makes noise when you walk on it---makes me think your slab is less then flat and requires a lot of prep or another type of flooring---i would think a glue down lvp might work for you but without my eyeballs on it its only a guess

 

[DarisMulkin]

noise---squeaks clicks pops--means movement---your floor is either moving up and down---i.e. improper floor prep---laminates require a nearly flat floor---or moving side to side---faulty product most likely the click mechanism--i assume your floor only makes noise when you walk on it---makes me think your slab is less then flat and requires a lot of prep or another type of flooring---i would think a glue down lvp might work for you but without my eyeballs on it its only a guess

I guess I got to be picky. Why wood your floor make noise if it wasn't walked on.

Daris

 

[Floorist]

I guess I got to be picky. Why wood your floor make noise if it wasn't walked on.

Daris

Haunted by ghost termites?

 

[workingjoe2001]

noise---squeaks clicks pops--means movement---your floor is either moving up and down---i.e. improper floor prep---laminates require a nearly flat floor---or moving side to side---faulty product most likely the click mechanism--i assume your floor only makes noise when you walk on it---makes me think your slab is less then flat and requires a lot of prep or another type of flooring---i would think a glue down lvp might work for you but without my eyeballs on it its only a guess

Yes, the noises are only when we walk on it
I think you are right about movement. But I don't think it could be the click mechanism since this is the third floor (second brand) to do the same thing. I don't mind paying for more floor prep IF I knew whether it is the moisture or the leveling so we would know what to fix. Is there a way to determine which way to go? Is there such a thing as an independent "tester"? I have to go with the same company for installation since Mohawk is refunding through them. But if I could get someone else to test the floor prep...???

 

[Nick]

We have independent Inspectors on the site . Depends on where you live .

 

[workingjoe2001]

We have independent Inspectors on the site . Depends on where you live .

Sanford, FL 32771
If no one on the site lives near me, how would I go about finding an Independent Inspector?

 

[rugaddict]

the most likeky scenario is that there are valleys under the floor and as weight is applied the laminate flexes in a way that it was not designed to---other options --glue residue on the slab---defective padding--far to many pairs of corderoy pants---or stubbornly insisting on wearing golf cleats in the house

 

[workingjoe2001]

the most likeky scenario is that there are valleys under the floor and as weight is applied the laminate flexes in a way that it was not designed to---other options --glue residue on the slab---defective padding--far to many pairs of corderoy pants---or stubbornly insisting on wearing golf cleats in the house

Well, if those are my options I'm going with valleys since there has been no corduroy in my life since high school and I am not a golfer
How would glue residue effect the floor if there is a plastic moisture barrier and a pad between the concrete and flooring? I'm not sure I can picture this.
Also, if it were a defective pad, it doesn't seem very likely that I would have the same outcome from three separate installations.
What would you do to narrow down the possibilities?

 

[Ernesto]

Sanford, FL 32771
If no one on the site lives near me, how would I go about finding an Independent Inspector?

Just google flooring inspectors.

As I mentioned before I've installed tens of thousands of sqft of UNICLIC and never had an issue. The reason floors make crackling noises is when they are locked in, usually because of lack of expansion, not cutting around vertical surfaces and door casings.
If the used six mil and didn't tape the seams or used the wrong tape this lets in moisture, makes the floor expand.
Then I always see installers using to much adhesive to glue in the transitions whiich fill in the gap.

I thought you said they only used six mil with an attached cushion? If they keep on using the same underlayment often times they can be overwhelmed and do call for six mil under them.

Moisture test. If they say they did they should have documented it. No proof, then they eat it.

 

[workingjoe2001]

Just google flooring inspectors.

As I mentioned before I've installed tens of thousands of sqft of UNICLIC and never had an issue. The reason floors make crackling noises is when they are locked in, usually because of lack of expansion, not cutting around vertical surfaces and door casings.
If the used six mil and didn't tape the seams or used the wrong tape this lets in moisture, makes the floor expand.
Then I always see installers using to much adhesive to glue in the transitions whiich fill in the gap.

I thought you said they only used six mil with an attached cushion? If they keep on using the same underlayment often times they can be overwhelmed and do call for six mil under them.

Moisture test. If they say they did they should have documented it. No proof, then they eat it.

.

My flooring guy said he's never had problems with Uniclic either. I hate to be the first!!!
I saw the expansion space around the edges of the room, but didn't actually witness what they did at door casings. If they did use too much glue at a transition, would it make the floor pop and click all over?
I didn't mention exactly what they used underneath because I don't know. All I know was that it was a plastic sheet and a separate padding (not attached), then the laminate.
The flooring guy is being great about this. He has eaten all the labor costs so far. But even he doesn't know what to try next.
I wish there was a "flooring expert" I could call to come and take a look...even if it means taking up some planks. If I could have someone else look at leveling/moisture/expansion space/adhesive then maybe we could figure this out.
Any suggestions about how to find someone to check out these issues?

 

[rugaddict]

glue on the slab gives you a bubblegum under your shoe kinda sound-and basically the pad sticks and unsticks as you walk---analyze when and where you get the sound---is it everywhere? only in certain spots? different sounds with different weights? have another person watch the floor while you step on it---do they see it flex? what kind of sound? we can go csi on it for you---

 

[workingjoe2001]

glue on the slab gives you a bubblegum under your shoe kinda sound-and basically the pad sticks and unsticks as you walk---analyze when and where you get the sound---is it everywhere? only in certain spots? different sounds with different weights? have another person watch the floor while you step on it---do they see it flex? what kind of sound? we can go csi on it for you---

CSI is exactly what I need!
To me it doesn't sound like bubble gum under your shoe. And it happens over a majority of the floor (about 2500 sq ft). It doesn't seem to sound any different when my husband or I walk over it (different weights). I don't "see" any movement or flexing of the floor except in one spot in a hallway.
I'm going to try and videotape it so you can see and hear what is going on. Hopefully I can get that posted on Saturday.
I really appreciate everyone's willingness to try and help!!!!

 

[Ernesto]

Sanford, FL 32771
If no one on the site lives near me, how would I go about finding an Independent Inspector?

http://www.nicfi.org/Request.aspx

 

[Ernesto]

I can't imagine why any slab on grade would have a moisture issue where you live. LOL

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S...2!3m1!1s0x88e70c950764fe11:0xb0c5851d99e7c5fc

 

[workingjoe2001]

http://www.nicfi.org/Request.aspx

Thanks! I just put in a request

 

[Ernesto]

Let me know who's coming out in a PM. Truthfully I don't understand why the rep gave you money for replacement without having a qualified inspection preformed first. Silly rep prolly did it to appease the retailer. And the retailer should be asking for and paying the inspection unless Mohawk will.
That said it's good you pay for a full unbiased report, that way you have the ammunition for reparations.

 

[workingjoe2001]

Let me know who's coming out in a PM. Truthfully I don't understand why the rep gave you money for replacement without having a qualified inspection preformed first. Silly rep prolly did it to appease the retailer. And the retailer should be asking for and paying the inspection unless Mohawk will.
That said it's good you pay for a full unbiased report, that way you have the ammunition for reparations.

Actually, Mohawk did send out an inspector who denied my claim saying that I turned off the air conditioner for long periods of time which caused humidity and temperature problems. Which, in turn, caused floor problems. This was all FALSE. I told him that I was out of town for 48 hours during which time I set the air conditioner to 78 degrees. Something really got lost in that translation! LOL.
Anyway, my rep complained and Mohawk gave in and paid the claim. But they didn't say that they actually found anything wrong during the inspection.
I don't mind paying for an independent inspection...which I say in all ignorance since I have no idea what it will cost But I am sooooooo ready for someone to figure this out!