Discussing politics and religion

[havasu]

Look at this true video. It says there are 3.3 MILLION Muslims in the US currently. And look at their poll, that 5% of the Muslims approve of violence towards Americans. In my math, that is over 165.000 Muslims already in America, which want to cause us harm. And YOU are fine with this? And if you would please notice, this is a report by your coveted CNN. Is this fake news or not?

 

[Ernesto]

According to people who study population trends, the US will be majority Muslim in 50 years. Europe in 30 years. They reproduce like rabbits.

I call bull_shit. Muslim pop is 0.09 percent, up from 0.04 percent a few years ago due MAINLY to immigration.
Still more worried about the russian factor in trumps election campaign more than muslims. In fact I'm more worried about white supremacists that seem to be on this forum.

 

[Ernesto]

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...ook&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook

 

[havasu]

I hope you are not referring to me as a white Supremacist? My Hispanic wife and half Hispanic children would love to differ with you. Bottom line, I'm American, have an American flag flying outside, and I pledge my loyalty to the great US of A.

 

[Ernesto]

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report

 

[havasu]

Sorry Ern, you are no different than me. I'm sure you also fly an American flag, but how many Muslims do? Who are they pledging their loyalty to?

 

[Ernesto]

Look, there's varying degrees of bias.
My dad was dark skin Italian . He hated black people, jews etc.
My father in law is German , marries a hispanic girl and hates jews, muslims and black people .
I dont understand that.
I grew up with several mexican families and dated hispanic women, love them! I love the hispanic culture that owned a majority of western America .
I believe koran or not if you imply all Muslims are bad people then all hispanic people are bad people.
Thats just the way the mind works i guess .

 

[havasu]

You are correct. I also have Muslim friends, and have had many dinners at their houses. The difference is they call themselves Americans. That being said, even my Muslim friends treat their wives like shit, and they never eat with the men at the table. I know he beats the shit out of her often, but I cannot convince her to notify the police. You know, I feel it is similar to eating dinner with a Pill Bull dog. Is it a good one, or a bad one?

 

[Floorist]

Let us know what Muller's report said. I haven't received my copy yet.
Need to get rid of the Nazi's. Wasn't a Nazi, but hell, I wonder what my grandfathers thoughts were on non-whites.
Makes me one too because I'm related.
Going to prison? You need to lay off of that stuff whatever it is.

My ancestors were Irish, The English listed us as non-white.

 

[zannej]

Havasu, I was talking about LEGAL immigrants. And yes, the people did hate them because of where they were from. There used to be signs on places saying "No Irish" and they wouldn't let southern Italians stay places. They talked about them that they were all dirty, smelly, violent creeps. People didn't want to give them a chance. But, they integrated and people eventually accepted them.

And if you're only hating on the illegals, why hate on the Muslims? Many of them are born here or come here legally. CNN only seems to fact-check SNL skits, so no, I don't buy their figures. I don't count CNN as a reliable news source. Also, keep in mind that polls don't always accurately reflect the attitudes of the whole- those are just from the people who actually responded. I've seen "news" groups sample a very small group of people (sometimes less than 1k) and claim that the majority believe x. It's How To Lie With Statistics 101. Skewing "5% of the people we polled" is posted as "5% of Muslims" and often they don't cite how many people they actually got answers from. Just see what would happen if they did a similar poll asking white people if they condone violence against Muslims and, depending on the sample size, you'd probably find more than 5% saying "yes".

Your daughter not getting financial aid because she has no Mexican blood is about racism, not about illegals. If we didn't have for-profit medical system, it wouldn't have cost that much for her treatment (and I'm very sorry to hear she went through that and hope she's ok now). It sounds like she got screwed by an unscrupulous employer who *should* have been paying her medical bills. That is not the fault of the immigrants themselves, but of the system.

I don't think it is fair for illegal immigrants to come here and get a free ride (if that is what they are doing), but I don't think that means we need to hate legal immigrants/citizens who aren't white or that we need a huge border wall all the way across the entire border. I also don't think we should lock up children in cages & mistreat them because their parents brought them to the border while seeking asylum. The kids should not be punished- and it's costing us more $ than it would for the usual process of vetting them as a family.

I think part of the problem with our system is that there are bottlenecks with legal immigration and people don't know how to come here legally. People who come here legally agree not to avail themselves of public assistance programs. Do some violate that? Yeah. But there are also citizens who abuse the system-- although mostly it's businesses that seek to defraud the government. For awhile, it used to take only 3 months to process applications for citizenship or to come to the US. Now it can take well over 10 years. The system is broken and needs to be fixed.

If the Muslim men you know treat their wives like shit, that may just be the culture they are from (not reflective of their religion). I know a lot of Christian men who treat their wives and girlfriends like shit. I've known some who beat their wives too. It doesn't mean that all Christian men abuse women. Every single Mormon family I knew, the husbands treated their wives and/or daughters like utter garbage. I don't know if they physically abused them, but they certainly abused them verbally and emotionally. Does that mean all Mormons are bad? Of course not!

Having lived in a country surrounded by many different Muslims. I never met a single one of them who was cruel to anyone. Most of them treated their wives as equals. I have a Muslim friend I keep in touch with online who treats his wife like a queen and encourages others to treat everyone with kindness and love. I'm not sure I get what you're saying about "the difference" being that your Muslim friends call themselves American. There are many people who identify as Muslims AND Americans. There is room for both.

When JFK ran for president, people were worried that he would try to push a Catholic agenda on the government, but he didn't. He wasn't exactly a beacon of morality & fidelity, but just being Catholic did not make him put aside his oath of office & push his religion on the government. Mind you, we have had (and currently have) so-called Christian legislators who are trying to push their religion on the country and who violate the first amendment. Doesn't mean they are all going to do that though. Also doesn't mean that the Muslim members are going to try to push "sharia law".

 

[Nick]

Everyone is so concerned about a useless wall they forget all the stupid things this idiot has done to weaken the nation..

 

[Nick]

 

[Nick]

 

[Ernesto]

Gee, wonder what the state of the union address will be like. Lots of sniffles, i think he is on drugs. I doubt he can make it through a one hour speech. Prolly 30 minutes at best.

 

[Nick]

The Wall !!

 

[zannej]

Looks like Pelosi is blocking Trump from giving the SOTU until the shutdown ends. He can't go and speak before the House without being invited & she uninvited him. She cited security concerns, which is just as phony as the urgency for the wall. She's playing hardball with him. She said he can submit his speech in writing or deliver it from the oval office (sans crowds). He lives for the applause & praise so it is a big jab.

Speaking of the wall, the person who started the Gofundme is not very trustworthy & is farming people's e-mail addresses https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...rvative-star-shadowy-email-harvesting-n957896
Gofundme is going to issue refunds because the guy violated the rules by changing the wording and removing some of the terms (such as initially saying people would get a refund if they don't hit certain benchmarks). He's made numerous gofundme pages for charities in the past and has not given the $ to the charities.

The shutdown is not helping the economy in my town. It was already in the toilet, but many of the people here work for ICE, (whatever they call the part that handles naturalization now), and BOP. There's a federal prison in town & with federal workers not getting paid, they aren't able to afford meals at the local food places, groceries, gas, etc so business is dropping. They are cutting people's hours at food places and Walmart. The governor did call on some emergency funding to keep food stamps up for awhile, but it won't last. It's worse in other places with more federal employees where the economies depend on them buying things.

 

[highup]

Once this fiasco is finished they need to fund every budget as it was in the previous year, minus programs that will not renew. That keeps the government running normally while they battle out new or additional funding.

 

[highup]

Everyone is so concerned about a useless wall they forget all the stupid things this idiot has done to weaken the nation..

The border patrol wants it. That's all I need to know.

 

[zannej]

Not all Border Patrol want it. Just because someone appears on TV with Trump & spouts what he wants them to say or because Fox says it's what they want, doesn't mean it's true. It's likely untrue if it comes from Trump & Fox. I'm sure they would be happier if the budget allocated for ICE/Border Patrol had actually been spent on that. They were only allowed to spend a small portion of the budget allocated to them. They also need to eliminate some of the bottlenecks. Someone thought it would be a good idea to get rid of local supervisors and make it so that all ICE departments have to report back to DC & get orders directly from there rather than having people locally who can handle requests & make fast decisions about enforcement. That means all the requests pile up in DC and can't be answered right away.
The whole need for the border wall was debunked anyway https://qz.com/1520651/border-patrol-agents-in-texas-showed-trump-why-his-wall-wont-work/

I do agree that they just need to battle it out while the government is opened. We don't need the type of wall that Trump has been pushing nor do we need to spend that much on it. I'm not saying we shouldn't have any blockades or that we should just open the borders. I do think that if the separating children at the border thing keeps happening and if they keep making it harder for people to enter legally, then it will lead to more illegal immigration. There will be more sympathizers who will break the law to aid them and more $ for coyotes who take advantage of them for being desperate. The wall won't fix any of that.

 

[havasu]

Just exactly why are you so against a border wall Zanne??There is a push for those against the wall that they should remove their front doors. Would you like to borrow a screwdriver?