Help - Questions about chemicals in vinyl install - foul odor and health problems - Global Gem Flooring

[driftinwoods]

LVP/T IMO belongs in a commercial environment as it was originally designed for.
I dont mind doing repairs and picking up several hundred bucks by noon for a few planks.
No store here will even repair their own jobs. Now that's some **** there.
Most can't do it. I could just do repairs pullin planks everyday. But the job can't have other issues. Just damaged planks are easy.
When you hit 67 yrs old repairs are Iike nuggets of gold. Takes a higher skill level than installing.

 

[C.J.]

You must be in a smaller town? There are definitely some differences between big city living and small town life.

 

[Incognito]

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/

 

[Incognito]

LVP/T IMO belongs in a commercial environment as it was originally designed for.
I dont mind doing repairs and picking up several hundred bucks by noon for a few planks.
No store here will even repair their own jobs. Now that's some **** there.
Most can't do it. I could just do repairs pullin planks everyday. But the job can't have other issues. Just damaged planks are easy.
When you hit 67 yrs old repairs are Iike nuggets of gold. Takes a higher skill level than installing.

I had the hardest time not throwing the original installer(s) under the bus or otherwise cursing to High Heaven when doing commercial repairs. It's especially hard when you understand how this little defect that's come to the "end users" attention is just the tip of the iceberg.

I cant say that repairing commercial jobs were nuggets of GOLD in any way. But they were nuggets of something. I actually only installed the click-lock type about a dozen times of usually a few thousand square feet per. We never had a callback that I know of so I never did a repair at all. I just didn't like anything about those materials and I'd go crazy watching the guys BASH the planks together and then BASH down the cross joint when it was sticking up.

I would never recommend floating floors excepting where folks cant afford to demo the asbestos or other legitimate issues. And I don't care for vinyl in homes at all. It's plastic. PLASTIC for crying out loud.

 

[JPfloor]

And I don't care for vinyl in homes at all. It's plastic. PLASTIC for crying out loud.

I agree about that with today’s products.

Does anyone remember what they used to call “solid vinyl”. It was a high end product. Back in the 80s we did a lot of fancy design work with it in high end homes. One of the shops I worked for brought the product in in large sheets (4X4 I think). They had a machine for precision cutting the tiles to size. The color went through the whole tile, kinda like rubber tiles but stiffer, yet softer than VCT… Didn’t shrink and no wax required. Came in solid colors and some nice designs... Looked good and lasted forever… Don’t see it around anymore, not sure why.

 

[driftinwoods]

You must be in a smaller town? There are definitely some differences between big city living and small town life.

over a mil

 

[C.J.]

over a mil

You must be in the sucubus zone of city population size. In a small town you can’t afford to burn up your name and in big cities you can run on numbers alone for quite awhile before the jig is up.

 

[driftinwoods]

Go buy yerself a bottle of NEW CAR SMELL SCENT and just inhale it. Lol
It's some pure poly vinyl chloride. Hmmmm

 

[Incognito]

I agree about that with today’s products.

Does anyone remember what they used to call “solid vinyl”. It was a high end product. Back in the 80s we did a lot of fancy design work with it in high end homes. One of the shops I worked for brought the product in in large sheets (4X4 I think). They had a machine for precision cutting the tiles to size. The color went through the whole tile, kinda like rubber tiles but stiffer, yet softer than VCT… Didn’t shrink and no wax required. Came in solid colors and some nice designs... Looked good and lasted forever… Don’t see it around anymore, not sure why.

I recall installing that in medical and industrial space with epoxy adhesive. We'd have to chalk off 100-150 square feet at a clip and mix up two half gallon cans. I believe we used the full 1/16" square notch and you could go in right away but if you let it flash maybe 15 minutes there'd be less slip and ooze when you passed the roller. HAS to be 70+ degrees or it's not going to lay down even and you get seams and corners sticking up. The glue was dark grey, almost black.

 

[Rosewood]

Hope this pdf takes. Its a new study by yes, scientists, on off gassing of vinyl floor products. It's the SVOC's thats gonna kill ya faster than VOC's. And yes, they off gas a lot but slowly. I'd never put that stuff in my house. I'm even considering not installing it.

Characterizing Exposure to Indoor VOCs and SVOCs Indoor VOCs and SVOCs using Simple Mass-Transfer Model

Hello, as I read through the main study you posted here in pdf form, I noticed that the place studied was a day care center with a lot of plastic toys. Perhaps the children and adults had the phthalates on their hands from touching those toys. Could the phthalates in the air dust be from the carpet? I wondered about the phthalates on top of the hardwood floor surface and then I thought about the kids sneakers with soft plastic soles, as well as dust from the carpet.

 

[driftinwoods]

It certainly is everywhere. How about doggie toys too?
As I've researched it it's true most of the flooring does not have the bad phthalate, it's been replaced by another lesser invasive chemical.
Remember the recent train wreck that burned for dsys polluting an entire town?
That was lots of poly vinyl chloride. The base for all plastics.

 

[sgrodpm35]

hey "Commercial Floor Rep" this stuff is so hairy
i think i have the flooring
please- whats the cleanest, least toxic underlayment we can use in our play room?
- melissa
[email protected]

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

Hey @sgrodpm,

Apologies as I've been focused on a project at work and missed your message.

Here are the main criteria for any good underlayment:

Minimum 1/4" (6mm) thickness - many of the products out there are 5.5mm so make sure it's stated that it is 1/4"(6mm), not a nominal 1/4"(6mm).
Must be sanded, filled (if needed) and free of voids inside
Must be put together with an exterior grade adhesive (not pressure treated or treated - most APA standard plywood panels are put together with an exterior grade adhesive.
Must not contain dyes that can leach or bleed
**Most important in my opinion** must have a written warranty from the manufacturer for use as an underlayment panel. If the panel has this, it was designed for use as a flooring underlayment.

I believe APA A-C rated plywood typically meets all of the requirements. However, it can be difficult to find one that has a written warranty for underlayment. If you do find one that has a warranty, say from someone like Weyerhauser, those are typically decent products and would be usable for your application..

As a side note, for many years birch 4'x4' or 4'x5' underlayment was considered the "gold standard" for underlayment. Unfortunately, most birch used to make plywood has been in short supply since the war in the Ukraine began. If you can find birch plywood, it's going to probably be crazy expensive, but it is a incredibly good product.

That being said,

Here are two products that I'm personally familiar with that meet the requirements and are well made...

Matrixx from Traxx industries:
https://www.traxxcorp.com/products/matrixx-underlayment/

Ironply from Patriot Timber:
https://www.patriottimber.com/ironply/

I would feel safe using either of these in my own home with regards to their manufacturing and performance.

Hope that helps and all the best in your project!

Here's a Monarch from one of my recent walks for good luck!