Issues cleaning LVP after Murphy Oil

[tberger]

Hi all,

I have installed https://www.mannington.com/residential/products/luxury-vinyl/aduramax flooring in my basement and after all the construction my wife used Murphy's Oil mixed with water to clean it.

The end result - is that it left a sheen on the floor that is extremely smudged and impossible to clean. I have tried numerous cleaners in small spots to try to get it up and have not found an answer

1. Vinegar mixture
2. Rubbing alcohol mixture
3. Mineral spirit mixture
4. Zep PH balance mixture
5. Scrubbing hands and knees and hand drying
6. Dawn dish soap mixture

I'm starting to think I need to try a ZEP Heavy Duty Stripper, or a steam mop.

I'm hoping you can help me understand what I should be doing to get this clean. I did have a cleaning company come and show they could make a dramatic difference with a liquid they had - but they weren't happen with the end result. In the end it wasn't a good fit - and I'm on the search again.

Any thoughts, please help!

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

I'll be honest, once it's in the embossing (texturing) of the product it's pretty difficult to get it removed. As you've already discovered, doing so by hand is nearly impossible. The reason is, in order to get the residual up and out of the texturing you're going to have to use a microfiber mop head rather than a traditional cotton head mop, a sponge mop, or a scrub brush. The fibers or bristles on those are too large to get down into the texturing. You have to use something smaller than the texturing to get the remaining residual up and out of the embossing. String mops, terry cloth, sponges, and scrub brushes are simply going to ride over the high spots in the embossing and you MAY get a little of the residual up, but it won't get all of it.

If it were me, I would here a company that does professional cleaning and would have access to a small auto scrubber. If you insist on doing it yourself, you can rent one, but just a heads up that there is a bit of a learning curve to using one.

The absolute best product to use as far as a chemical to remove the residual would be ammonia and water. Anything else is going to have other chemicals that can add another layer of complexity to the chemistry experiment you've already got started. This will not hurt the floor finish at all. Any remaining residual ammonia will simply evaporate when drying. You can buy ammonia at Dollar General for a couple of bucks for a whole gallon.

The cleaning solution should be 1/2 cup of ammonia to 1 gallon of clean water.

The advantage to the auto scrubber is that it can apply the solution, agitate it with the microfiber, and then after dwelling for 5-10 minutes remove the solution along with the residual chemicals using its extracting mechanism.

Since you've added other chemistries into the mix, it may take more than one shot to get it all up.

An even more IMPORTANT next step ---If there is any carpet in your house IT MUST BE CLEANED AND EXTRACTED AS WELL, or you might as well not even begin. Murphy's will track off of a hard surface and stick to carpet fibers. Then when you walk back onto your hard surface you'll track it back onto the floor. EVERYTHING MUST BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME or you're just going to track the residual right back into clean area and have to start all over again.

Murphy's oil soap, as the name suggests, is a soap. So, chemically it's a surfactant. Surfactants work by clinging to and trapping dirt in their "sticky" chemistry.

Once you get everything to a reset state, moving forward you can use a mixture of 1/4 cup of ammonia per gallon of hot water. As an alternative, you can use Mannington's Ultraclean spray cleaner. It's a good cleaner, but it's pretty expensive in comparison to ammonia and water and it won't yield any better result than ammonia and water.

A note on steam mops...

Yes, I know, I know, I know, Mannington says their product is steam mop safe. So do most other manufacturers. So, it must be safe right??

Let me ask you a question and see if you think using a steam mop makes sense to use on a plastic floor....

Steam is generated at 212°F...Mannington states very clearly in their installation instructions "Adura Max should NOT be exposed to temperatures greater than 140° F."

While they do state in their warranty that Mannington approves the use of steam-based cleaners specifically made for hard surface flooring", there are several exclusions in the warranty that reference "burns" or "heat" related damage.

Question...
What do you think possibly may happen to plastic flooring that isn't supposed to be exposed to temps above 140°F when you expose them to temps at 212°F???

Ultimately, it's your decision to decide what is best for you. I'm just trying to provide as much science-based information for you to make the best decision possible.

At any rate, what I've stated hopefully helps you resolve your issue. This information is culled from dealing with Mannington products both commercially and residentially for the past 30 years and performing these steps myself to help customers who have made the same error. It's not going to be fun or easy, but I know from experience this will work to correct the issue.

All the best!
CFR

 

[tberger]

Thank you so much -

Is this what you would recommend for an agitator? https://a.co/d/eUTFyUX?

I will give the ammonia a try and report back - and if ammonia alone isn't doing the job I will add in an agitator. At this point, the cleaner that came will not be possible to hire, even though I wanted to.

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

Thank you so much -

Is this what you would recommend for an agitator? https://a.co/d/eUTFyUX?

I will give the ammonia a try and report back - and if ammonia alone isn't doing the job I will add in an agitator. At this point, the cleaner that came will not be possible to hire, even though I wanted to.

Actually, no. That's just a floor scrubber. You need an auto-scrubber with a built-in water tank that does extraction. Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Powe...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

They make smaller units than this, but it's the only one I could find quickly on Amazon. The most important part is the extraction of the cleaning solution into a water tank on the machine, so that you can make sure your soiled water isn't drying with the residual in it back on the floor. A typical homeowner isn't going to have an auto-scrubber with a built-in extractor. Even the small ones are pretty expensive. But you can sometimes rent them at a local janitorial supply store. They also make them with pads that spin vertically, think like a snowblower. Those will do better at removing the residual up and out of the embossing.

 

[havasu]

CFR, thank you for the detailed response. I know myself and many others learned something new because of it!

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

CFR, thank you for the detailed response. I know myself and many others learned something new because of it!

Most welcome!

We've made floors much easier to maintenance over the past 30 years. The problem is the cleaning chemical companies have not updated or kept up with what works for today's floors because they don't want to decrease sales by discontinuing products. I understand no one wants to sell less products, but the reality is, some of the products being sold probably need to be repurposed or at least retested to make sure that they don't actually cause problems for consumers.

I can't tell you the number of times I've caught janitorial supply reps or facilities staff "overdosing" the dispensers for cleaning products in commercial facilities. The reps do it to sell more cleaning product and the facilities people do it thinking "if one 'glug' is good, then two 'glugs' is better". The result is, buildup on the floor leading to either a bad looking floor or, worse yet, a slip-fall problem. The process is the same as above. Get rid of the residual and get back to a "reset" state then move forward with the correct maintenance. I would get challenged by facilities folks that the floor "was ruined" and "couldn't be cleaned, it's defective". Usually followed about 15 minutes later by an apology after I would reset a 3'x3' spot to show them it definitely was the maintenance process and not the floor and it could be cleaned. I think I could recite some of these repetitive things in my sleep. In fact, that's my worst nightmare. I'll wake up in the middle of the night after I retire mumbling about concrete moisture or maintenance issues.

I think the worst one was my own mother who used Murphy's to clean everything in the house including me. I installed a floor in her house and explained to her exactly how to clean it and even bought her the stuff to do it. Two weeks later, mom knew best and cleaned it with Murphy's and realized she had a film on the floor. You know "mom knows best"! It took me longer to argue with her about it, than it did for me to actually fix the problem. When I got done and it looked the way it should have I of course got a thank you but never an admission that I was right. Gotta love it! All you can do is laugh sometimes.

 

[havasu]

I had a quart of Murphy's Oil Soap for a few decades, but have never found a purposeful use for it. Every time I tried using it, the surface became dull and sticky.
I'm sure I finally tossed that bottle, but can anyone say what this stuff is good for?

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

I had a quart of Murphy's Oil Soap for a few decades, but have never found a purposeful use for it. Every time I tried using it, the surface became dull and sticky.
I'm sure I finally tossed that bottle, but can anyone say what this stuff is good for?

Years ago, I think the main purpose was to give a shiny appearance to hardwood furniture and flooring. It was kind of the "go to" for that purpose in the past. But when modern urethanes started being used for scratch resistance, it really lost the majority of it's true purpose. People (like my mom) kept using it not knowing the difference in the older vs. new technology.

The funny thing I find is that over the years, SC Johnson (Johnson-Diversy) and Colgate - Palmolive have cornered probably 80% of the household cleaning product market and acquired a lot of these older brand products. They rely mainly on the strength of the brand name rather than actually evaluating the changes in the marketplace. Usually, it takes lawsuits or enough bad press for it to finally be removed from the marketplace.

One of the big ones I've run into commercially is goo-gone. I have several facilities in my market that for whatever reason use that to clean door hardware in their routine maintenance. They don't realize that it's basically kerosene oil with enough citrus oil to mask the smell of the kerosene. When you drop or spill that product on certain flooring or finishes, it basically dissolves them. Rubber flooring is one of the things it damages. I had a college have to replace five stairwells of treads and landing tile because their maintenance people were cleaning the door handles and push bars with goo gone, dripping it on the floor and it was literally breaking down the rubber to the point they were wearing through to the subfloor. Goo -gone has a purpose, but it's not a general cleaner.

Had another one once where I got called due to people slipping on a slip-retardant floor. After investigating what was happening, found out a cook from the kitchen didn't really think the maintenance folks were doing a good enough job cleaning the floor, so he was using something called "Pan Dandy" to try and clean it to his liking. Of course, it was leaving behind a residual build up and when it would get wet, it was like an ice-skating rink. We removed the residual and the floor was fine.

I won't even get into the tons of problems in surgical operatories over the years. Suffice it to say, the main goal there is not the cleanliness of the floor.

As a result, I've had to research a LOT of cleaning products over the years, find out their main chemistry, and develop a plan to counteract the problem they created. There's always something new to learn for sure.

 

[MSLI]

I see a book deal in your future with all that knowledge.

Hey CFR, most of the carpet cleaning co’s now clean hard surfaces too. Do you think they have the right equipment and micro scrubber pads for that Murphy’s oil job ?

 

[Commercial Floor Rep]

I see a book deal in your future with all that knowledge.

Hey CFR, most of the carpet cleaning co’s now clean hard surfaces too. Do you think they have the right equipment and micro scrubber pads for that Murphy’s oil job ?

I've found those guys are hit and miss. Some of them are extremely knowledgeable about their business and they keep up with newer technology in the hard surface world too. Other ones, can't clean carpet well, let alone have hard surface. I have a couple of them that I work with when they have questions and who I would feel very comfortable with them not selling the customer on something that's more of a gimmick than an actual help. There's a lot of those guys that rely on their "franchise" to teach them that just have no clue what they are talking about. So, if you have someone you've worked with before and were happy with their work, by all means.

I've found that many of them have a massive amount of turnover in help too. So, someone who was up to speed, might not be if their cleaners have changed.
Sorry, wish I had a better answer for you. We've tried reaching out to those types of businesses over the years to offer training, and it's just never well received. Mainly because we take a "less is better" approach and their business model is all about adding (many times unnecessary) products that they can sell. So, our current state of affairs doesn't really mesh with their business model too well.

 

[tberger]

I hate to report back that ammonia did not clean up the residue.

I used cloths on my hand and knees, let it sit for 5 or so, and then dried it.

I also increased the amount of ammonia and did not see a difference. I did not use an auto scrubber, but plan to rent one when I find the right solution

 

[MSLI]

I hate to report back that ammonia did not clean up the residue.

I used cloths on my hand and knees, let it sit for 5 or so, and then dried it.

I also increased the amount of ammonia and did not see a difference. I did not use an auto scrubber, but plan to rent one when I find the right solution

That’s discouraging, I hope progress is made soon….. I did a quick google search and found this info that validates CFR’s recommendation. Best of luck.