Net fitting Marmo

[C.J.]

Side seams grow, butt seams shrink. What adhesive you use will affect how much the Lino grows n shrinks. I had my scribes perfectly set for seams when I was using the Sustain 885 M adhesive cus that’s what we were using all the time. Slight gap and the material grew just right for a beautiful seam. When I did my own kitchen I used the same scribes but I used some Henry’s Linolock adhesive. Same slight gap and that Lino didn’t budge one bit so now I gotta hoofer my own kitchen cus it was a lighter colored material and that 32nd bothered me. I’d much rather made a crappy seam in some apartment.

You’re doing a darker material against some darker walls, a slight gap won’t be jumping out at anybody if it happens.

 

[highup]

Side seams grow, butt seams shrink. What adhesive you use will affect how much the Lino grows n shrinks. I had my scribes perfectly set for seams when I was using the Sustain 885 M adhesive cus that’s what we were using all the time. Slight gap and the material grew just right for a beautiful seam. When I did my own kitchen I used the same scribes but I used some Henry’s Linolock adhesive. Same slight gap and that Lino didn’t budge one bit so now I gotta hoofer my own kitchen cus it was a lighter colored material and that 32nd bothered me. I’d much rather made a crappy seam in some apartment.

You’re doing a darker material against some darker walls, a slight gap won’t be jumping out at anybody if it happens.

I'm using the marmoleum adhesive. I'm not worrying about the seams as there are only two of them. The one on the right hand side of the door is 5 in x 3 1/2 ft. I straight edged that seam, taped it tightly together then patterned and scribe fit that as if it was all one piece. I did a little test with Armstrong 761 seam sealer and it dries to a Milky translucent color.
I stopped at the paint store yesterday and they gave me a shot of black colorant. I'm going to mix up a small bottle of the 761 seam sealer and the colorant to make it a dark gray. The seam it will butt together beautifully so it's not like a gap filler. I just want the sealer to be there even though the floor probably isn't going to get washed very often.
I hate the word 'slight gap' when it comes to seams. Some people might consider a credit card a slight gap but that's .030" thick. A heavy duty utility blade is .025" A standard utility knife blade is .018"
If I had one, I'd measure one of those razor blades that painters use. I'd rather see an actual number to go by and I could use my judgment after that.
The piece behind the toilet will be fit and glued separately, so I'm not worried about any seam issues on this job. Glad you brought up that different adhesives will allow or not allow shrinkage to the same degree. I'm betting of someone use an off-the-shelf multi-purpose the shrinkage would be considerably higher than using marmoleums adhesive. I'm not so much worried about the shrinkage because that's either going to happen or not going to happen. The customer fully expects it to be caulked around the perimeter..... And they know it's not going to be a quarter inch wide slather of caulking. It's going to be the tiniest amount that I can apply.
The toe kicks are zero concerned because he's putting new 3/4 inch faces on the toe kicks. I guess at this point my biggest concern will be dropping the material into the adhesive. My brother will be helping me get this piece into place, so there will be two of us observing lineup points as a material gets dropped into the adhesive.
I'm going to do a test fit, sort of a trial run to see if we're going to run into any issues dropping this into the adhesive.
The odd thing is, I have another job to do in linoleum in a similar size bathroom. In this one, the linoleum will be coved.... Sorta.
The current vinyl floor has cove cap installed and has the vinyl installed as if it were base. It's not self-coved. The pieces on the wall we're fit separately. It was done that way last time and yes they want it done this time. Good thing, because if they wanted itself coved, I wouldn't be doing the job.

 

[Jon]

I'm using the marmoleum adhesive. I'm not worrying about the seams as there are only two of them. The one on the right hand side of the door is 5 in x 3 1/2 ft. I straight edged that seam, taped it tightly together then patterned and scribe fit that as if it was all one piece. I did a little test with Armstrong 761 seam sealer and it dries to a Milky translucent color.
I stopped at the paint store yesterday and they gave me a shot of black colorant. I'm going to mix up a small bottle of the 761 seam sealer and the colorant to make it a dark gray. The seam it will butt together beautifully so it's not like a gap filler. I just want the sealer to be there even though the floor probably isn't going to get washed very often.
I hate the word 'slight gap' when it comes to seams. Some people might consider a credit card a slight gap but that's .030" thick. A heavy duty utility blade is .025" A standard utility knife blade is .018"
If I had one, I'd measure one of those razor blades that painters use. I'd rather see an actual number to go by and I could use my judgment after that.
The piece behind the toilet will be fit and glued separately, so I'm not worried about any seam issues on this job. Glad you brought up that different adhesives will allow or not allow shrinkage to the same degree. I'm betting of someone use an off-the-shelf multi-purpose the shrinkage would be considerably higher than using marmoleums adhesive. I'm not so much worried about the shrinkage because that's either going to happen or not going to happen. The customer fully expects it to be caulked around the perimeter..... And they know it's not going to be a quarter inch wide slather of caulking. It's going to be the tiniest amount that I can apply.
The toe kicks are zero concerned because he's putting new 3/4 inch faces on the toe kicks. I guess at this point my biggest concern will be dropping the material into the adhesive. My brother will be helping me get this piece into place, so there will be two of us observing lineup points as a material gets dropped into the adhesive.
I'm going to do a test fit, sort of a trial run to see if we're going to run into any issues dropping this into the adhesive.
The odd thing is, I have another job to do in linoleum in a similar size bathroom. In this one, the linoleum will be coved.... Sorta.
The current vinyl floor has cove cap installed and has the vinyl installed as if it were base. It's not self-coved. The pieces on the wall we're fit separately. It was done that way last time and yes they want it done this time. Good thing, because if they wanted itself coved, I wouldn't be doing the job.

Thought it would be all over by now we would get paid about NZ$320 for laying the Marmo
I would be looking at setting the marmo up rolled loosely inside out along the doorway wall, as long as you have cut it in neat, Un roll so that it hits those bits sticking out and the opposite wall, pull back standing on the Marmo spread glue then drop in. It will be hard to get the rest back due to toe spaces etc out to glue
We used to say here it has to go in one way or other as you dont have another piece to replace it

 

[highup]

All went great. Customer is thrilled, installer is relieved.

 

[highup]

I had a piece of trim, so I took it along. If nothing, it would tell if this style would work.
Initially, he said that he was going to fabricate a molding.
This trim is a typical wood reducer with a groove built into it.
......so with minor modding to remove the lower part of the groove's lip, then reducing the thickness of the upper part of the lip to eliminate a tripping issue, I probably took less than 45 minutes to finish off the edge. Job complete..... maybe.
I wanted to put a super skinny bead of silicone around the tub an tile. I bought the "good stuff" by GE. It was about $12 a tube.
I put one small bead behind the toilet and stopped. The silicone wasn't very clear.... Not as clear as I expecting. I had nothing else with me.
To seal, or not to seal!
...that is the question. The flooring fits great,especially the tub.
Homeowners are nice older couple and this is the main bath. Their clean, not sloppy. Nobody is taking a mop and bucket and "swabbing the deck so to speak. It would look better without caulking.
Wadaya think?

 

[C.J.]

I would get a tube of crystal clear caulking and seal that bathroom up. You think old people don’t drip water n such. Maybe not as much as a young couple with small children but still enough to cause damage over time. Or how about the next owners of that house. That’s almost a forever floor, or at least until someone gets tired of looking at it. Best part is you will get to see if your seams grew and pooched up any.

 

[Jon]

Looks good
Were any of my ideas any good or do I shut up next time
Trouble is if not are not laying a certain product all the time you loose "the Knack" or remember how you can make easier for next time

 

[highup]

I would get a tube of crystal clear caulking and seal that bathroom up. You think old people don’t drip water n such. Maybe not as much as a young couple with small children but still enough to cause damage over time. Or how about the next owners of that house. That’s almost a forever floor, or at least until someone gets tired of looking at it. Best part is you will get to see if your seams grew and pooched up any.

 

[highup]

Looks good
Were any of my ideas any good or do I shut up next time
Trouble is if not are not laying a certain product all the time you loose "the Knack" or remember how you can make easier for next time

Never ever shut up Jon. Every single thing you said make perfect sense.
no... Just keep flappin your lips.
I maybe slow but I pay attention.
When I first started working with my grandfather we did tons of vinyl Corlon.
I recall a job in a 40 foot square room. The pattern was like 6" quarry tile.
In 40 feet, the pattern was off by a 3/4 of an inch. We took the offending role and roll it backwards as you mentioned. I was amazed at how close we could get that roll of vinyl to match up it was almost perfect. So yes the compression that you mentioned that made a lot of sense.
My big issue is simply working with linoleum instead of vinyl.
It gets more confusing when CJ mentioned that he had used a different adhesive and it behaved totally different than what he expected as far as the shrinking and the growing of linoleum.
That right there is my lack of experience. If I used marmoleum's adhesive, and because of its characteristics, the marmoleum didn't grow much, and didn't shrink much then that would give me confidence in fitting a material on an installation such as this.
I don't think that I've ever been asked to fit an area like this.
I'll bet it's been 20 years since I've scribed anything because all these new vinyls are supposed to be hacked in.
It's a rare day that I even hear the word marmoleum or linoleum let alone, asked to install it.
Because of that the one thing CJ mentioned, I would never use some generic adhesive and I would never use a multi-purpose adhesive.
I'm at least that smart.
Thank you Jon, and thank you CJ for your input. If I have to think back, I can't actually recall the last piece of vinyl flooring that I installed. Nobody buys vinyl anymore, they buy Cortec now.
I will honestly Bet that I have not glued down any kind of vinyl flooring in the past 2 years so this was a real shocker for me.

......and tomorrow I'm delivering some underlayment to another bathroom done in marmoleum.
.......

 

[highup]

It's only 15 miles away so showing back up to add some sealer is no big deal.
The only clear ceilings I know are dab, Polyseamseal, and oh my god, ........Lexell
Lexell is super clear.
Anyone with some better options than doing nothing.
Silicones detend to be quite shiny.

 

[Jon]

What about sanding, scrapping the surface of a scrap of the Marmo with thick sand paper then mix up with that PVA Wood glue? You coulld end up making a big pile of it, I think you call it doffa? Goes darker when dry
Wipes off with water

 

[Jon]

Humor me for awhile
How do you transfer your scribe marks from your patern to the material after this?
Tell me what you actually do
Do you hold the scribers against a straight edge
I have already asked where I am heading for the next question

Think a bit before you answer and why I am asking

 

[highup]

Not sure what you're talking about with the straight edge.
I run my dividers down the wall and that puts a groove in the tape. It doesn't put a scratch mark in the tape, it puts a dent in the tape. To do this, I run my dividers at a steep angle. After putting your pattern on the vinyl or linoleum, you run one leg of the dividers down the groove in the tape which it follows quite nicely, and the other leg scratches a line on the vinyl or linoleum in this case. Is there any other method when using dividers to mark your pattern?
I draw a straight line on to the tape with a ballpoint pen and then I apply it on my pattern and let it ride up the tub a couple inches. Before taking the pattern off the floor, I cut the tape at the base of the tub.
Then I put my pattern on the linoleum and place another piece of tape on the linoleum, directly underneath the lineup mark on my pattern and transfer my line from the pattern onto the piece of tape on the linoleum.
Again, I don't know how else you do it.
I can't wait for your follow-up question.

 

[highup]

Not sure what you're talking about with the scrapings from the linoleum. I thought you did that to fill gaps in seams. I've never heard of using it for caulking.

 

[highup]

In my first reply about marking my pattern, the tape is two layers deep. I do this so that my dividers compress a groove into the tape, I groove that can be followed with one leg of the dividers that are scratches a line onto the linoleum.
This wouldn't work with some thin paper because the sharp point of the dividers wouldn't be able to leave a groove for an indentation in the paper.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you use dividers for making the marker on the paper and you use a straight edge to transfer the mark from the paper onto the vinyl.
How am I doing so far?

 

[Jon]

Do not forget I am still talking net finish with no gaps
People were taught here with the days of that rag type paper then use those scribers similar as you do then put the pattern on top of the vinyl. Then the disagreements came as people were using straight edges about 1/4 inch thick to hold one leg of the scribers against to get a decent straight line mark into the vinyl so one can cut it. My point is that when people started using a straight edge for the marks onto the pastern instead of scribers they became cowboys. The straight edge guys said well you use a straight guys to hold the scribers against. They said what is the difference? Fair point
What we do now as those flexible straight edges came out as the old thick straight edges would not follow the walls, is cut the paper in slightly short of the walls then go around with one of those 750m Flexible straight edges with a ball point pen, cut along any tape marks which joined the paper so one can roll up the paper without creasing it. Set up the pattern on the vinyl cut off the corners off the paper place a couple of inches of masking tape to hold the paper in place so you dont cut the tape when you cut the vinyl, grab your straight edge place just on the ball point line just covering them then cut. With the asbestos backed vinyls or commercial types one can allow more as they could be made to shrink. These plastic backed vinyls one has to be pretty spot on as they will not shrink
Yes I do take the paper up the side of round showers etc then crease the paper with a ball point pen but I cut along the paper on the vinyl
Also I have a part sheet of under layment so I can knell on something solid if cutting on carpet so the vinyl doesnt bend into the carpet with my weight
This is the paper everybody that still can pattern uses as lots free hand then fill around the walls, they do not lay Marmo
Your way just seems to me lots of extra work of which does nothing
Keep it simple

 

[Jon]

In my first reply about marking my pattern, the tape is two layers deep. I do this so that my dividers compress a groove into the tape, I groove that can be followed with one leg of the dividers that are scratches a line onto the linoleum.
This wouldn't work with some thin paper because the sharp point of the dividers wouldn't be able to leave a groove for an indentation in the paper.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you use dividers for making the marker on the paper and you use a straight edge to transfer the mark from the paper onto the vinyl.
How am I doing so far?

Threw the dividers away years ago and you should do the same, too much to go wrong
see my reply as I got caught up on the phone before I hit send
Pretty certain we used to use the scrapings as there was no fillers like these days

 

[highup]

If you have 4 inch tiles, then you'd use a 4" straightedge and move or relocate it 50 times because the tiles aren't even? They're close, but not that close. Dividers are like using a bar scribe. They follow the contours of the walls and tub. You can't use a straightedge on a curved tub. Well, maybe you can.

 

[highup]

Jon, nothing I do f has speed written on it. If it saved me a half hour on this job, that doesn't bother me.
I always use a square for flat walls. I used one for repairing the subfloor and installing the underlayment. I was taught both methods and the dividersalr a continuous line, not stop, start like a short straightedge. I have never seen the thin ones you use.

 

[Jon]

Those straight edges will follow 4 inch tiles as they bend or maybe the same as I do around round showers if the tiles are really out of line, do get a lot of 6 inch tiles here
That paper is 120 gsm
Told you threw the dividers away years ago
and

Yes I do take the paper up the side of round showers etc then crease the paper with a ball point pen