Newbie DIY cutback problems

[Ams112789]

You'll still need a floor covering as shot blasting leaves a rough profile.

Yes. I knew this. But doesn't shot blasting do the best job of getting the cutback off? Better than grinding it off right? Anyhow, if I can leave it down that's what I'll do.

So let make sure I have this right ... Scrape it good. Sweep/mop/clean it good. Skim coat the feather finish. Skim coat the sd-m. Possible 2nd coat of sd-m. Prime. Epoxy. Seal... And this is something y'all think will last a good while?

Thanks guys. This is what I needed. Some professions that know the products to tell me what I needed.

And thanks Ernesto. I never would've figured that combo out. (Big shocker huh? Coming from a young dumb DIY'er am I right? Haha) But for real. Thanks for the red flag or I would've just slapped down the sd-m.

 

[Ernesto]

And thanks Ernesto. I never would've figured that combo out. (Big shocker huh? Coming from a young dumb DIY'er am I right? Haha) But for real. Thanks for the red flag or I would've just slapped down the sd-m.

Well, what can I say. I have a soft spot for the young people with limited funds. But I think maven tried to sabotage you so he could come in after the failure and make more money fitzin it. Lol
Beware of DIY forums.

 

[FloorMaven]

Yes. I knew this. But doesn't shot blasting do the best job of getting the cutback off? Better than grinding it off right? Anyhow, if I can leave it down that's what I'll do.

So let make sure I have this right ... Scrape it good. Sweep/mop/clean it good. Skim coat the feather finish. Skim coat the sd-m. Possible 2nd coat of sd-m. Prime. Epoxy. Seal... And this is something y'all think will last a good while?

Thanks guys. This is what I needed. Some professions that know the products to tell me what I needed.

And thanks Ernesto. I never would've figured that combo out. (Big shocker huh? Coming from a young dumb DIY'er am I right? Haha) But for real. Thanks for the red flag or I would've just slapped down the sd-m.

Shot blasting in my opinion is overkill. I'll grind it with my hilti, taking all precautions...it's vacuum assisted just like a shot blaster should be. Still, safest method is to wet scrape to a residue and encapsulate. SD-F is designed for this as it chemically bonds with water molecules allowing it to cure without the need for evaporation. You can install over it green because it will cure chemically. That why you can cover non-water soluble adhesives only (like asphaltic based cutback) and not a latex or acrylic adhesive. The patch would stay wet reducing the integrity of any water based adhesive causing a bond failure.

I would have noted that SD-M is not designed this way but I rather you come to the realization on your own as to why to do it instead of simply how to do it. Of course, as much as Ernesto says he doesn't like to help we all know he's one of the first to step up with quality advice and lead you in the right direction.

SD-F is very thin, just a skim maybe two but not much more that 5 or 6 mil thick. SD-M in two coats will be 20 mil and will be a wear surface. (I like a 1/16" square notch trowel for the first pass then a flat trowel for the second coat.) The better rotogravure sheet vinyl wear layers are 10 mil thick. Color, stain, finish as you desire.

 

[Incognito]

wet scrape the trowel ridges down to smooth residue.

prime----there's a few you could use but you do want to use the primer AND let it dry

TWO (skim) coats Ardex Feather Finish

paint----PREMIUM floor paint, 2-3 coats

multiple coats of PREMIUM compatible sealer/finish

I don't know from cheap, except that I know that cheap will fail.

 

[FloorMaven]

prime----there's a few you could use but you do want to use the primer AND let it dry

Just to note- ardex recommends p-51 for porous and p-82 for non porous subfloors...but priming cutback is a personal choice and not a manufacturer's requirement.

 

[Ernesto]

.

Of course, as much as Ernesto says he doesn't like to help we all know he's one of the first to step up with quality advice and lead you in the right direction.

SD-F is very thin, just a skim maybe two but not much more that 5 or 6 mil thick. SD-M in two coats will be 20 mil and will be a wear surface. (I like a 1/16" square notch trowel for the first pass then a flat trowel for the second coat.) The better rotogravure sheet vinyl wear layers are 10 mil thick. Color, stain, finish as you desire.

Stop making me out to be the good guy here as much as I like it.

 

[Ernesto]

Just to note- ardex recommends p-51 for porous and p-82 for non porous subfloors...but priming cutback is a personal choice and not a manufacturer's requirement.

I do priming if I'm going over with wood. Thats just me. Why dont you post a link to SD-F installation pdf. It's even more confusing to the laymen than SD-M.

 

[Ams112789]

Me thinks cutbac is asphaltic based and is a bond breaker.

CONCRETE: All concrete substrates must be solid, thoroughly clean and free of oil, wax, grease, asphalt, latex and
gypsum compounds, curing compounds**, sealers and any contaminant that might act as a bond breaker.

Ok guys. Not doubting you at all or anything. Just showing you I'm doing my homework. Haha. Ernesto told me that cutback is the ultimate bond breaker... And the installation sheet for sd-f has the same paragraph that the sd-m has about removing any possible bond breakers. But I also see the paragraph saying sd-f can go over non-water-soluable adhesives.

But anyway... Can one of y'all explain it to me so I can understand kind of what it is I'm doing chemically? Cause I read bond breakers stop two surfaces from attaching to each other right? So if cutback is the ultimate bond breaker how can anything chemically attach to it?

Thanks guys.

 

[FloorMaven]

Ernesto told me that cutback is the ultimate bond breaker... And the installation sheet for sd-f has the same paragraph that the sd-m has about removing any possible bond breakers. But I also see the paragraph saying sd-f can go over non-water-soluable adhesives.

I'm thinking Ernesto & Ardex have a difference of opinion.

 

[Ernesto]

I'm thinking Ernesto & Ardex have a difference of opinion.

Not really, I was talking about cutback and adhesives, ok many patches and toppings as well. I told you the product data was confusing to people. Theres specific products out there for encapsulating cutback, then theres finished topping designed to actually allow foot tracffic on them.

 

[Nick]

I used something a few years back , i think it was called cutback, or cutdown from mapi, or Ardex . there were no trial marks on the floor just the residue.
Just rolled it on with a roller and the next day i glued 600' of VCT right to it.
Never got a callback .

 

[Ams112789]

I used something a few years back , i think it was called cutback, or cutdown from mapi, or Ardex . there were no trial marks on the floor just the residue.
Just rolled it on with a roller and the next day i glued 600' of VCT right to it.
Never got a callback .

That's the way this is, not really any trowel marks, very small ridges, more like a broom or paint brush than any trowel I've ever seen. There is no telling how my grandpa did it 50 or so years ago when he built the house. I can say for the last 20 years at least it was never waxed or anything and its lasted this long. But there are several whole squares missing and chipped up all over the house so it's time for a new floor of some sort.

 

[Ams112789]

Not really, I was talking about cutback and adhesives, ok many patches and toppings as well. I told you the product data was confusing to people. Theres specific products out there for encapsulating cutback, then theres finished topping designed to actually allow foot tracffic on them.

Ok... I was just curious as far as chemically what made the sd-f able to bond to the cutback. Or is it just cause that's how the ardex engineers designed it so that it would be able to stick to the cutback?

 

[Ernesto]

That's the two million dollar questions.

 

[Ernesto]

I used something a few years back , i think it was called cutback, or cutdown from mapi, or Ardex . there were no trial marks on the floor just the residue.
Just rolled it on with a roller and the next day i glued 600' of VCT right to it.
Never got a callback .

I've used cut down for emissions on suspect slabs as well. Didn't know it was also for cutback residue as well. Worked good for my job. I think it is made by Dependable.

 

[Ernesto]

I used something a few years back , i think it was called cutback, or cutdown from mapi, or Ardex . there were no trial marks on the floor just the residue.
Just rolled it on with a roller and the next day i glued 600' of VCT right to it.
Never got a callback .

I've used cut down for emissions on suspect slabs as well. Didn't know it was also for cutback residue. Worked good for my job. I think it is made by Dependable.
Not sure you can use paint over it. Some of these products are only made for under flooring.

 

[Nick]

I've used cut down for emissions on suspect slabs as well. Didn't know it was also for cutback residue as well. Worked good for my job. I think it is made by Dependable.

That's who makes it E. When the senility kicks in,i just have to ride it out .

 

[Ams112789]

That's the two million dollar questions.

Oh ok... So no real reason... You just know that it works. Haha ok, that's good enough for me.

Well thanks guys. I'll try and post pictures when I get my hands on some Ardex and get it all put down.

 

[FloorMaven]

Ok... I was just curious as far as chemically what made the sd-f able to bond to the cutback.

It chemically bonds with all the water. Moisture is the bond breaker.

 

[Ernesto]

It chemically bonds with all the water. Moisture is the bond breaker.

There is no moisture in cut back residue. The water that's mixed into the sd-f chemically bonds to the ingredients. The chemical mix then binds to the cutback residue.