Putting VCT Tile over a nonvirgin subfloor.

[Al from Durham]

Hello there.

I am endeavoring to put VCT tiles on an old subfloor that will have some residue of the previous floor's adhesive on it. The residue is removed to flatness. You can't feel it but you can see it.

I can't imagine that nobody else ever does this. I imagine that it is probably pretty common.

I'll have to level some areas too. But my question is whether the adhesive manufacturer's demand for a virgin wood surface is reasonable or is there some slack in that?

 

[C.J.]

In general they want a clean, structurally sound substrate to adhere to. You can skim coat the floor or use some sort of primer to encapsulate the adhesive or you can mechanically remove it. I’m sure there’s a fair amount of people that just go over the existing and take their chances

 

[Al from Durham]

Mechanically remove it? I'm going at it with a Spyder Scraper, a hand scraper, a pole scraper, an old-fashioned painter's scraper, and a pocket scraper with a GEM razor blade in it. The razor works best. I'm going to end up scraping a whole kitchen with razor blades.

But there's some part of the adhesive that seems to have soaked into the wood.

 

[C.J.]

Mechanically remove it? I'm going at it with a Spyder Scraper, a hand scraper, a pole scraper, an old-fashioned painter's scraper, and a pocket scraper with a GEM razor blade in it. The razor works best. I'm going to end up scraping a whole kitchen with razor blades.

But there's some part of the adhesive that seems to have soaked into the wood.

Wood floor?? No fun. Sounds like scraping it up is about as good as it gets unless you want to sand or grind it off. That of course would require some sort of dust containment and would also possibly involve dealing with asbestos.

What about getting it as smooth as possible then capping the floor with a layer of 1/4” plywood.

 

[Al from Durham]

Here's the deal: The landlord is selling the house. This decision came down after I started ripping out the old floor. I have been fixing up the house all along, my expense, they take care of me, I take care of them. So it's as much a rush job as my senior old body can do.

But whole new plywood? No.

On a brighter note, I tried Citristrip on a small area of contamination, and it seems to have worked. The goo has two layers, grey on the bottom and kind of yellow on the top. I just put some Citristrip on some areas where both layers are hanging on, and we'll see what happens.

Now, the question becomes will glue stick to wood that has remnants of paint remover in it.
.

 

[C.J.]

Sounds like you’ve got it covered. Carry on.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Here's the deal: The landlord is selling the house. This decision came down after I started ripping out the old floor. I have been fixing up the house all along, my expense, they take care of me, I take care of them. So it's as much a rush job as my senior old body can do.

But whole new plywood? No.

On a brighter note, I tried Citristrip on a small area of contamination, and it seems to have worked. The goo has two layers, grey on the bottom and kind of yellow on the top. I just put some Citristrip on some areas where both layers are hanging on, and we'll see what happens.

Now, the question becomes will glue stick to wood that has remnants of paint remover in it.
.

Citristrip maybe another problem as it is used to remove glue. It may have soaked into the wood and can be a bond breaker for any new ahesive put down. I think 1/4 inch plywood is still your best bet also less labor intensive.

 

[Al from Durham]

I'm thinking about that too. But Citristrip is almost always used on surfaces that have been subsequently painted or varnished, and if that were a problem we certainly would have heard about it by now.

As for new plywood, you're talking hundreds of dollars and a working kitchen with all the appliances in it.

I will presume that the word "maybe" instead of "may be" is an innocent typographical error.

 

[C.J.]

I will presume that the word "maybe" instead of "may be" is an innocent typographical error.

I dunno, Daris has been known to typo things on purpose.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Maybe I should have. said "could be" instead of maybe. I'm not a English professor.

 

[C.J.]

Maybe I should have. said "could be" instead of maybe. I'm not a English professor.

I blame it on the water you’ve been drinking.

This does bring up a good point. Citristrip or whatever it’s called is technically a bond breaker and will likely void any warranty. Having said that, I’ve followed behind many an abatement crew that uses that stuff and there’s always some residue left behind that we inevitably end up installing over. Don't recall ever having any issues, or tiles, pop up because of it, so it just kind of gets ignored even though it’s still a spec. It’s also part of a bigger problem within the industry, which is specs have become subjective. Which ones get followed and which ones get ignored is usually based upon ones budget, and nobody cares until there is a problem.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Which ones get followed and which ones get ignored is usually based upon ones budget, and nobody cares until there is a problem.

When there is a problem-who gets blamed? "THE INSTALLER" as he is the professional and should know better.

 

[C.J.]

I wouldn’t worry so much about the citrustrip being a bond breaker as much as I would worry about putting VCT straight over the original? hardwood subfloor. If this floor is over a crawl space, boy o boy will there be some seasonal movement in that subfloor. Hopefully the house sells before that happens.

 

[Al from Durham]

Wait, what? Does this mean I have to undergo the hell of sheet vinyl? I just plain don't want to do that. The whole reason I'm doing this is that the original sheet vinyl was so ugly.

But I am very grateful for your bringing that up.

But bleep, now I have to hire someone to move out the appliances and sheet on the floor. I don't like this.
Dare I investigate peel-and-stick tiles?

This does bring up a good point. Citristrip or whatever it’s called is technically a bond breaker and will likely void any warranty. Having said that, I’ve followed behind many an abatement crew that uses that stuff and there’s always some residue left behind that we inevitably end up installing over.

I done beltsanded the heck out of it.

 

[C.J.]

You have plywood down now. That may be good enough for sheet vinyl but VCT will telegraph and show whatever it is installed over top of. Nail heads/ dimples, underlayment seams, glue blobs, a fly. When we cap a floor with a layer of 1/4” ply it covers all that crap up and gives the VCT a new substrate free of any of those imperfections and possible bond breakers.

I get that plywood is a chunk of money and may not be in the budget, but it’s still the recommended best practice for your situation. You could skip it and keep on rolling, we don’t care, we just want you to have the appropriate knowledge so in 6 months when you see what we’re talking about, you’ll know why we recommended capping the floor.

Sheet vinyl, IMO, is the way to go. You can loose lay that stuff right over top of what you’ve got right now and it’ll just lay there until the end of time. Yes, you either have to move or go around your appliances, but unfortunately that’s just part of doing a room with appliances in it.

Whatever you do, please don’t put down peel n stick tiles. That’s just more bad juju out there in a universe that’s already got enough problems.

 

[Al from Durham]

I get you, I am grateful....but what is the difference between new plywood and old plywood?

 

[C.J.]

I get you, I am grateful....but what is the difference between new plywood and old plywood?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-5-in-...Underlayment-Specialty-Panel-431178/203183010

It’s thin and provides no additional structural integrity. Think of it as modern day luan. It’s as smooth as a baby’s butt and gives you a clean palette to start from. If I showed up to your house to do that job I wouldn’t think of doing it without capping your floor first, because I know what it will look like in 6 months to a year, and I would be on the hook for it. Because of that most guys would probably want to cap your floor for sheet vinyl as well. You can occasionally skimp on that one from time to time for sheet vinyl but I definitely wouldn’t skimp on it for VCT.

 

[Al from Durham]

Isn't that kinda what I've got now? You're not looking at the actual floor boards, you're looking at just what you're describing. I'd certainly use leveler for the areas that are a bit wavy, and screw down any upward blips, but I think that what you want is what I've got. I know from luan, this is luan, complete with vicious splinters.

 

[C.J.]

If that’s what you’ve got the carry on.

 

[Tile Tom]

Why ask questions if you don’t want to hear the answers?


Sounds like you got it under control. VCT is cheap. Who cares if it fails.