Seaming a dense soft carpet with strong highlight

[highup]

I rarely have any issues with seams. I get called to fix the bad ones the other guys make.
I made nearly flawless seams in my recent job. The longest seam on the far right is 30 feet long. It's two feet out from the wall, so it's not subjected to the same harsh side lighting as the 16 and 17 foot seams middle and left.

The light enters this large upstairs area from the east (L) and west (R).......... not good for a carpet of this type. It's shiny. The blue areas are the windows.
The layout was best this way, but either direction the seams would have been subjected to the same light issues. The light comes in as seen from the left and right of this drawing at low angles because of the interior ceiling lines and sliding doors on a small covered deck.

The center most seam shows slightly, but only when standing at the point where the green arrows merge. It's about a 4 to 5 foot long part of the seam. Standing at that same point, the rest of the seam is invisible.
Viewing the seam from any of the purple arrows, the seam is invisible.
This tells me that the carpet color is not an issue.......... it's possibly an ever so slightly tighter or looser twist of the yarn, causing a highlighting difference. It's minor, but it bugs me. Can this be fixed by laying a warm damp towel over the seam for a few minutes and trying to 'persuade" the yarn.
I don't own a steamer and wouldn't know how to use it if I had one........in case that is an option.

The brown arrows show light coming towards the seam on the left. This seam shows a bit, the entire length.......... about 16 feet. Again, it's minor, bit it's there. This one does not show as discoloration like the other, but as if the twist of the yarn, and or the height of the yarn is higher on one side. I have not trimmed it yet. I've been waiting till the yarns have untwisted from being walked on and then being vacuumed. Tomorrow I'll see how the light effects the seam. I know it will look better.

Is it common to have to use napping shears on almost the entire length of a seam with this kind of carpet? The seam looks great if I rub it north and south. If I rub it east and west, it shows.
All seams were row cut, with no missing or short cut tufts.
All seams were lightly sealed with my hot melt gun. No hot glue got on the base of the nap.
All seams were done with a sheet of 1/8" masonite under them.
My seamer was set about 3 1/3 using Orcon XK50 tape
All seams were lightly pre-stretched.
All seams were stay-tacked prior to seaming so that I wouldn't have to kick them around while making the seams.
There are no gaps where the carpet backing comes together and there iis no overlapped edges. If you dig between the yarns to expose the backing, it is very difficult to see there the seam is.
I use my own version of the infamous Seamerdown with a vented plywood base. (been using it for many years now)
The people are picky, so I did way above and beyond on this install. This seam is so perfect............ yet it shows.

OK.............. the seams show a little. I am not used to this. Had I been the retailer, I would have talked them out of this particular style of carpet because of the rooms harsh lighting and long seams. The retailer did this from plans and never visited the home.

So, is spending a half hour with nap sheers, painstakingly trimming a few thousandths of an inch from the offending taller yarns, one at a time something that should be expected in a situation like this?

This is a "replacement" carpet, and the mill is only paying $4 for install and $1 for removal.............. I'm losing my keester time wise on this one. I have spent as much time just making the seams as the other two installers spent doing the entire 150 yards. I wish I was installing the same style of carpet that they did.

 

[Floorist]

Sometimes, the seams are just going to be visible no matter what you do. Has the customer complained? If not, just go on.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Sometime when rubbing the seam from the side it doesn't show one way but does from the other is it could be a slight case of ledging. The backings didn't marry up evenly. Take an awl and run it across the seam and see if you can feel a slight bump of grab. Sometimes you can also take an awl and forcefully push down on the seam line and make it come into line. Then again it could just be lighting.
Once you trim it if you have to make the seam again it will not match up for height.
Kind of heavy on the seam tape aren't you?
Lighting will play havoc on a seam.

Daris

 

[Floorist]

The local cash and carry has a plush they sell a lot. I have tried everything. Can't get an invisible seam. The customers never complain, but I can see it. It bugs me, but what can you do? Sometimes, you just have to accept that it will show.

 

[FloorMaven]

So, is spending a half hour with nap sheers, painstakingly trimming a few thousandths of an inch from the offending taller yarns, one at a time something that should be expected in a situation like this?

This is why it's recommended you trim 3" off each selvedge.

 

[highup]

Sometime when rubbing the seam from the side it doesn't show one way but does from the other is it could be a slight case of ledging. The backings didn't marry up evenly. Take an awl and run it across the seam and see if you can feel a slight bump of grab. Sometimes you can also take an awl and forcefully push down on the seam line and make it come into line. Then again it could just be lighting.
Once you trim it if you have to make the seam again it will not match up for height.
Kind of heavy on the seam tape aren't you?
Lighting will play havoc on a seam.

Daris

No ledging either. It seems more like one side is taller than the other. There is also no peak from stretching. It may have lifted ever so slightly from stretching, but not opened up in a hinge fashion.
I have used XK50 for most everything. I wish they made an XK40, XK30. I hate Orcon's numbering system.

The local cash and carry has a plush they sell a lot. I have tried everything. Can't get an invisible seam. The customers never complain, but I can see it. It bugs me, but what can you do? Sometimes, you just have to accept that it will show.

Once the carpet gets walked on the seam issue goes away. I just know that every time it gets vacuumed it will reappear a bit.

This is why it's recommended you trim 3" off each selvedge.

I have never seen that in print, so it's news to me. If an inch and a half don't work, then tough cookies. If the mills request that, how come the rolls aren't 12' 6" wide?
The color difference from the highlighting wouldn't have been corrected by that.

 

[Floorist]

I have never seen that in print, so it's news to me. If an inch and a half don't work, then tough cookies. If the mills request that, how come the rolls aren't 12' 6" wide?
The color difference from the highlighting wouldn't have been corrected by that.

I would be happy if the rolls were actually 12' wide. Most are 11'11" and I have seen them 11'9". I had a bedroom in the last house I did that there would have been no br fill needed with a 12' wide carpet.

 

[highup]

11' 9 1/2" is my record roll. It was a one piece bedroom, but I told the dealer to get on his reps petuti and complain.

 

[FloorMaven]

It's up to the installer to turn raw material into the finished product. Six inches of additional material is recommended for planning on each fill width and 3" on length (with no pattern) after compensating for a 3" trim of the selvedge on the main sheet.

When mils count I believe there are a number of ways you could have made your perfect seam better.

• A seam tape with less adhesive. Orcon does offer an XK30 and many other residential tapes that would have been better suited. Two much adhesive really has no place to go and that makes it easy to over-pack the pick.
• A less flexible underlay as a seaming board. The more give the seam board has the larger the chance adhesive has to go where you don't want it.
• Ditch the seamerdownnow. This tool is designed to get her down now...in this instance it would be better to allow the seam to cool naturally instead of freezing it to a profile that might not be ideal.
• Trim more of the selvedge. There is great force on the selvedge edges during manufacture. When thousandths of an inch count it's important to understand what those forces might do to the edge you chose to use to make a seam.

This list is for starters.

 

[FloorMaven]

11' 9 1/2" is my record roll. It was a one piece bedroom, but I told the dealer to get on his reps petuti and complain.

A 2% manufacturing tolerance is common. That's 2.88 inches in 12 ft. or a minimum width of 11' 9 1/8". If you suspect it to be close it's a good idea to check the finished width with the mill before ordering.

 

[rugaddict]

my two current demons are sidematch issues and pile height issues--i am so ocd but there are times when an invisible seam is not meant to be---i also love the hourglass effect when two rows dont run true

 

[highup]

It's up to the installer to turn raw material into the finished product. Six inches of additional material is recommended for planning on each fill width and 3" on length (with no pattern) after compensating for a 3" trim of the selvedge on the main sheet.

When mils count I believe there are a number of ways you could have made your perfect seam better.

• A seam tape with less adhesive. Orcon does offer an XK30 and many other residential tapes that would have been better suited. Two much adhesive really has no place to go and that makes it easy to over-pack the pick.
• A less flexible underlay as a seaming board. The more give the seam board has the larger the chance adhesive has to go where you don't want it.
• Ditch the seamerdownnow. This tool is designed to get her down now...in this instance it would be better to allow the seam to cool naturally instead of freezing it to a profile that might not be ideal.
• Trim more of the selvedge. There is great force on the selvedge edges during manufacture. When thousandths of an inch count it's important to understand what those forces might do to the edge you chose to use to make a seam.

This list is for starters.

I put 16 inch wide sheets of 1/8 masonite under the entire length of the seams. The pad is 7/16 8lb. There's no flexing.
Never seen anyone stocking the XK30, but I'll check. I've used the XK50 for 15 years or more and never had issues with it. I guess I have used it for so long, other tapes look wimpy.

I don't keep the "seamerdown" immediately behind the seamer. It stays a foot behind while I work the seam. I don't move it forward till I am satisfied with the part of the seam that I just put together. This isn't the real McCoy. It's an 8 inch by two foot sheet of plywood with slits in it. I used to use this same piece of plywood with my metal toolbox on it as a seam weight. Attaching my shop vac to the board makes for my version of that tool. I use it on almost all seams and it does what I want it to. I don't think it had any negative effect on this seam.
The head seams in the doorways turned out great, and I used it on them too. I used photo mat board under those seams for a firm support because the masonite is to thick.
I understand what you are saying about the stress on the edges of the seam by the factory, but there isn't a retailer in the state that allows for 3 inches off the edges for seaming. I probably could have gotten almost another 3/4 inch, but it wouldn't have made a difference.
The seam looks better after being completed for two days. This last roll of carpet stayed rolled up in it's 24 foot length until the day I made the seam. Maybe being rolled up this direction caused a temporary change in the yarn.
I got the rest of the job done today, and vacuumed it. I'll be back up there Friday to assist with moving a garage full of furniture up into the room. I'll do whatever micro trimming is needed on the seam then. I need the morning light through the eastern windows to do the trimming.
I'm a lot happier seeing the seam today that the day I made it.

 

[FloorMaven]

I'll do whatever micro trimming is needed on the seam then. I need the morning light through the eastern windows to do the trimming.
I'm a lot happier seeing the seam today that the day I made it.

When you sheer the tips of a few rows of yarn you increase the potential that they will reflect light differently than the rest. While you could make it look better in the morning light of 10 October you may make it look worse the other 22 hours of the day.

 

[highup]

I know about that potential, but have already done some trimming and it looks better at all times of the day. I know trimming some carpets can make one side look a lot darker. I'm treating this as careful surgery, not a hair cut. This one does fine with this light trimming procedure.
In the sketch I made, the block in the center is a stairwell coming up into this room. It has stub walls about 4 feet tall, so light doesn't travel equally across all the seams. The one seam that bothered me has light coming from one direction.

Part of the issue can probably be seen in the diagram below, where very small differences in the yarn spacing can occur because of the initial trimming the seam. I re-trim these areas before seaming if I see two large spaces together. Yarns too close can also cause an issue on this kind of carpet. Obviously these will cause the fibers to lay open when brushed side to side instead of being uniform with the rest of the carpet fibers. Upon doing my trimming, I take note of this, and don't try to fix something and create a new issue. I will stop trimming long before I make it look worse.

 

[FloorMaven]

...Part of the issue can probably be seen in the diagram below, where very small differences in the yarn spacing can occur because of the initial trimming the seam. I re-trim these areas before seaming if I see two large spaces together. Yarns too close can also cause an issue on this kind of carpet...

Yes, it's critical to maintain the gauge.

 

[Ernesto]

If you think it is a side match issue, stick a box over top of the seam with the bottom cut out.

Also, hammering the seam helps some times.

 

[highup]

I was thinking if they complain, some 2" gold flat bar........................ Just kidding. We all know that silver flat bar looks better with light green carpet.

 

[Floorist]

I was thinking if they complain, some 2" gold flat bar........................ Just kidding. We all know that silver flat bar looks better with light green carpet.

Just spray paint the flat bar green.

 

[Ernesto]

I was thinking if they complain, some 2" gold flat bar........................ Just kidding. We all know that silver flat bar looks better with light green carpet.

Just used some silver flat bar for the first time in like ....... 25 years. lol Transitioning from crapet to vinyl plank. Looks Grrrrrreat!

 

[Floorist]

Never have figured out why they put metal in every doorway in the UK.