Discussing politics and religion

[highup]

That is absolutely beautiful land there Hi. Been there a few time and it is pristine land. So, when the land and waterway was crap, they didn't say a word. Now that the Americans set up the infrastructure, the Indians want it back?

We have family in Gold beach below you. Does this affect them as well?

I'm thinking maybe all this is about stopping construction of an LNG export facility that plans to locate across the bay on what's called the North spit. Construction of the facility and building the pipeline that feeds it is a 10 billion dollar project.
The Indians list that location as historical. The proposed LNG terminal is a virtual go ahead. The company has been jumping hoops and hurdles for 15 years to try to make this happen.

 

[highup]

Its been going on here for years
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3550487

Some more reading for you

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10...on-in-treaty-payment-topups-with-more-to-come

Similar stuff Jon. Indians here hold a sovereign nation status. If you did work for them and they wouldn't pay you........ You are out of luck.
What bothers me is like............ if we hadn't come here, do they think they would still be living like their ancestors. No, if we didn't come here, who would have? Germany, Russia, China, Japan? Would that have turned out better for them......... or the world?

 

[Jon]

highup I do think the Maoris got ripped off a bit with the government taking their land hundreds of years ago
With The Treaty Of Waitangi been written at the time 1840?,was probably fair but some want it read in 2019 terms
The trouble is that some do not know where to stop, they want money for the airwaves for radio, TV etc
I do agree with them by trying to keep the land for New Zealanders, you want to try and buy land in Japan, China etc but they can and want to buy our farms etc. The big thing here now which most Kiwis do not like, is that the water for bottled water is free out of the ground which is exported for lots of money with those companies probably not even paying much in the way of taxes here. Nobody owns the water so its a free game for all at the moment
If it wasn't for the Maoris we would not have the best Rugby Team, The All Blacks, in the world but even that is changing due to some coming from the Pacific Islands these days

 

[Ernesto]

Virtually every state has tribes that have sovereign nation status in America.

 

[highup]

Just saying here that the tribes ought to be fair with their demands considering that vast improvements to their life quality because of what the white settlers eventually created. If it wasn't us, in might have been much worse. They certainly wouldn't have developed the lifestyle they have today.
In our case, if a contractor or developer was digging as in preparing a new home site or commercial piece of property.......... if they found bones or relics, they would have to stop and notify .........someone, not sure who, so it could be looked at and determine if it was of historical significance. I assume it's like that everywhere. Since we already have protections for that, this land grab is totally unnecessary. It would give them total control of any property that contacts water from the ocean shoreline, 10 miles through the bay, and another 15 miles up river from there. Anything in tide water. Replacing a fence on your property would cost you $2500 to determine if they thought it would be OK with them or not. Non refundable of course. They could also be able to stop businesses from developing what is now Port property......... ie: industrial locations along the bay.

 

[Nick]

 

[Nick]

 

[Jon]

Just saying here that the tribes ought to be fair with their demands considering that vast improvements to their life quality because of what the white settlers eventually created. If it wasn't us, in might have been much worse. They certainly wouldn't have developed the lifestyle they have today.
In our case, if a contractor or developer was digging as in preparing a new home site or commercial piece of property.......... if they found bones or relics, they would have to stop and notify .........someone, not sure who, so it could be looked at and determine if it was of historical significance. I assume it's like that everywhere. Since we already have protections for that, this land grab is totally unnecessary. It would give them total control of any property that contacts water from the ocean shoreline, 10 miles through the bay, and another 15 miles up river from there. Anything in tide water. Replacing a fence on your property would cost you $2500 to determine if they thought it would be OK with them or not. Non refundable of course. They could also be able to stop businesses from developing what is now Port property......... ie: industrial locations along the bay.

Maybe the tribes had a good lifestyle before us Europeans arrived ?
They probably have done better without all the hassles of todays life style we have brought with us? Maybe we should all go back in time and have a simple lifestyle sitting around a fire without puters and TVs and you could have got this message from NZ by smoke signal

 

[Ernesto]

We have a few tribes in AZ, prolly the most notable Apache and Navajo, Anazazi and Zuni. Many don't know the Pascua Yaqui Tribe that has a reservation next to Tucson and Phoenix, plus down in Mexico as they are decendents of the Aztecs. Many of these tribes have been around here for 10,000 years - 500AD, 600 AD. The Yaqui used to fight the Spaniards before we were around. Even raiding Apache camps.
https://www.gatewaytosedona.com/sed...ive-americans-of-northern-and-central-arizona
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascua_Yaqui_Tribe

 

[highup]

Maybe the tribes had a good lifestyle before us Europeans arrived ?
They probably have done better without all the hassles of todays life style we have brought with us? Maybe we should all go back in time and have a simple lifestyle sitting around a fire without puters and TVs and you could have got this message from NZ by smoke signal

I suppose 68 inches of rain with high temps of 40 degrees all winter was comfy. 'Specially when the wind was blowin'
Yea, I'm sure they all want to go back in time.
Summers would be good I suppose. Problem is if we didn't come here, someone else would have , so they would never have stayed in the stone age no matter how lovely it was. Nobody alive today lived that way so it's not like anyone remembers how it was other than stories passed down. Not that people embellish the stories. I mean, as a kid I wanted to live in the good old west.................. for a day or two.

 

[havasu]

I have a vacation home on 20 year lease property belonging to the Chemehuevi Indian Tribe. I know most of this tribe, and most are just drunkin Mexicans who wear tattoos from the notorious El Monte Flores Mexican gang. The US Government just bought them a $10 million water taxi, which holds 120 passengers. White boys like me pay $2 for the 20 minute ride to Lake Havasu city, but the Mexicans, er Indians don't pay a penny.

 

[Ernesto]

I suppose 68 inches of rain with high temps of 40 degrees all winter was comfy. 'Specially when the wind was blowin'
Yea, I'm sure they all want to go back in time.
Summers would be good I suppose. Problem is if we didn't come here, someone else would have , so they would never have stayed in the stone age no matter how lovely it was.

You mean like the Amish?

 

[Ernesto]

 

[Ernesto]

 

[highup]

Boo hoo!

 

[Ernesto]

So trump is sueing to stop his taxes from being released. Desperation....

 

[havasu]

Who really cares? Exactly how does this accomplish anything. Maybe if the dems were more willing to cooperate, you would see cooperation from him? I know he is not your Messiah, and also sure there is no room for Trumps pics on your wall, because you would have to remove your Messiah Obama's pics to make room, but Obammie is the main stooge who gave millions of secret funds to Iran, allowed little boys to go into little girls bathrooms, allowed transvestites, gays and sex change wannabe's to enter the military, so we get stuck with their penis construction surgery. Basically, the absolute worst president that came from Afrika!

 

[Ernesto]

I care, whats he hiding? If there's no issue like he says why not? Every other pres has since Nixon. And he said he would at first, then the lie he can't because of audit which the IRS said is not true. Liar in office.
"In 1973, while under audit and amid a controversy over his personal taxes, Nixon released returns dating back to when he took office in 1969. The scandal led to one of Nixon's most famous quotes. "People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook," Nixon told reporters in November 1973."

I

 

[DarisMulkin]

I don't care who you are it is not your business my business or anybody elses business what you I or anybody elses business what was earned by anybody. To me that is personal.

 

[Nick]

Who really cares? Exactly how does this accomplish anything. Maybe if the dems were more willing to cooperate, you would see cooperation from him? I know he is not your Messiah, and also sure there is no room for Trumps pics on your wall, because you would have to remove your Messiah Obama's pics to make room, but Obammie is the main stooge who gave millions of secret funds to Iran, allowed little boys to go into little girls bathrooms, allowed transvestites, gays and sex change wannabe's to enter the military, so we get stuck with their penis construction surgery. Basically, the absolute worst president that came from Afrika!

You mean like the reps corporated with Obambe .. Get real ..