Net fitting Marmo

[highup]

I'm installing underlayment in roughly a 9-ft x 9 ft bathroom.
Doorway is it the bottom right and the toilet sits over the dotted line on the lower left.
The material is laying bottom to top and the two dotted lines are going to be seams. The tiny seem to the right is unavoidable because it's just over 6 ft 7 in.
Anyway all the wall surfaces are ceramic tile that goes straight to the floor. The tub is a 1940s or 50s steel tub with a bit of a curve to it.
Everything except the cabinet toe kicks needs to be scribed and fit net.
I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to unroll the material in the living room and lay flat overnight to stabilize itself.
.....before I destabilize it when I drop it into the adhesive.
Yeah it's going to be a fun one getting the material laid into place.
The marmoleum is black and the tile on the walls is a dark burgundy. I think the black will help my net fit.
Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[C.J.]

Letting the material lay flat in a safe, acclimated area does wonders.

 

[Jon]

Roll it inside out as this will get the curl out of the roll
Make paper pattern of whole room using an 18 inch thin straight edge, not a builders square as they will not bend up crooked walls, used to use sharp pointed dividers as well
drop into place, fold back at least half, glue, push down wall lines first as the Marmo will shrink a bit if slightly tight
We cut the vinlys even Marmo in neat all the time

 

[Steve079]

I would...

 

[highup]

Jon, it's ceramic tile on the walls. I plan to scribe the perimeter...... Either that or a 4 inch straight edge and go one tile at a time.
Tiles are fairly flat to each other and the straightedge would work out relatively ok. I used that for the underlayment, but I'm trying for a thin bead of clear caulk. If I used a black or burgundy caulk, it would be a pain because the walls have white grout.... that could make a mess. Besides that nobody makes a caulk that's not close to burgundy.
The marmoleum is black so this is going to be interesting.
The black floor against that burgundy could work to my advantage if using clear caulk.
My biggest concern is how much the material will grow in width in four and a half feet, that's the distance from the toe kick to the tub. How much will it shrink in 9 ft, the length of the room?
Thinking in with I can probably fit it net but not tight.
In length and thinking of 16th of an inch long might work.
That tiny sliver of a cabinet in the middle has a toe kick all the way around it. That's going to make dropping the material into the adhesive very interesting.....
I'm thinking taping a half inch by 1 in piece of fir shim stock to the left side of the material to make it rigid. That would help keep the left side from drooping and falling into the adhesive as it's slid into place If my brother was in the tub, I could tube the material and he could guide it into place on that end of the room.

 

[Jon]

also i would cut the marmo put then us the same pattern to mark the underlayment out slightly smaller so it drops in, place sure quicker than measuring then joining the dots to find nothing square or straight pulling out again to trim bits off

 

[highup]

I usually put two, or even four lineup marks on the material from my pattern. Glue grabs fast, so the more visual lineups, the quicker you can shift to the correct position.

 

[Jon]

Jon, it's ceramic tile on the walls. I plan to scribe the perimeter...... Either that or a 4 inch straight edge and go one tile at a time.
Tiles are fairly flat to each other and the straightedge would work out relatively ok. I used that for the underlayment, but I'm trying for a thin bead of clear caulk. If I used a black or burgundy caulk, it would be a pain because the walls have white grout.... that could make a mess. Besides that nobody makes a caulk that's not close to burgundy.
The marmoleum is black so this is going to be interesting.
The black floor against that burgundy could work to my advantage if using clear caulk.
My biggest concern is how much the material will grow in width in four and a half feet, that's the distance from the toe kick to the tub. How much will it shrink in 9 ft, the length of the room?
Thinking in with I can probably fit it net but not tight.
In length and thinking of 16th of an inch long might work.
That tiny sliver of a cabinet in the middle has a toe kick all the way around it. That's going to make dropping the material into the adhesive very interesting.....
I'm thinking taping a half inch by 1 in piece of fir shim stock to the left side of the material to make it rigid. That would help keep the left side from drooping and falling into the adhesive as it's slid into place If my brother was in the tub, I could tube the material and he could guide it into place on that end of the room.

NEVER GOING TO WORK YOUR WAY, THINK ABOUT IT
1 how are you going to get the marmo to flat so you can scribe it with those toe spaces?
2 how are you going to get those shim rock out pieces with the glue there if they havent already fallen into the middle of the glue
3 We would never pre fit any area like that as one is going to do more damage getting the Marmo in out
4 As I said cut the Marmo in neat back roll it fairly tightly but it maybe along the door way wall to hold it in place spread glue then unroll into the glue carefully, you never going to slid the Marmo in an area like that due to the ins and outs, toes spaces and where does the glue go?
up the walls leaving none on the floor?
Here 2 hours max one guy

 

[highup]

Shims? No shims. Maybe I worded something unclearly.
One person in the tub.
Floor glued.
Person tubes sheet as well as possible and passed it to person in tub.
Both move Marmo into position above adhesive, then lowers into adhesive. It's 8' 6" long. It's just 4 feet between tub and cabinet on left.

 

[highup]

I've used strapping tape in an x pattern on corners to prevent it from ripping.

 

[Jon]

I've used strapping tape in an x pattern on corners to prevent it from ripping.

Have I been getting it wrong?
is there a join on the left as well?
Hard to read your numbers etc from here?

 

[highup]

In the image the bottom right is the doorway. immediately to the right, is a narrow seam (dotted line) at the top right is a tub a bath tub.
The wall at the end of the tub is 4 by 4 tiles.
To your left, will be the toilet. There will be a seam in front of the toilet
Top left is cabinet. It has a toe kick.
The sheet of Marmo will run straight down the toe kick and under the toilet.
Toilet is a separate piece.

 

[highup]

Here's how I'm fitting the underlayment. I will scribe a pattern the same way for the material.

 

[Jon]

Here's how I'm fitting the underlayment. I will scribe a pattern the same way for the material.

Do those points get close enough to the wall, we used to have longer scribers and bend the point on one side out a little so that the point actually hit the wall then use the bent side against the straight edge when transferring to the material
threw those scribers away years ago now everybody uses those straight edges as above as they will bend up along tiles, wobbly walls etc and save a trip around the walls by not having to cut along your scribe marks. as you will be using a knife against the straight edge to transfer your marks Some times you might have to use the square end to mark the paper
When you get a round shower just take the paper up the side of the shower a little then draw the creased paper with a ball point pen tightly against the shower base to leave a mark, place on material then cut the ball point pen mark

 

[highup]

A small bend designed for that.
I like the way things fit in the palm of your hand.

 

[Jon]

Not talking about the legs Everybody here was taught to use scribers with solid legs then bend the last quarter inch or so on one leg to make sure the point hit the wall not the the side of the legs
Would like to see one of those pins bent out slightly so the pin tip actually goes against the walls.
To me the point looks like the the actual point could be not quite able to hit the wall making the vinyl that tiny fraction short
Making sense? No idea where mine are as gave up with them years ago

 

[highup]

I see what you're saying about the point Jon,
Finish the prep and I've got the material cut out and just laying on the living room floor. No time to glue it in today so I got my fingers crossed it stays the same dimensions overnight. It's already been laying there for 24 hours before I scribed and cut it.
At the end of the day there's always caulking right?

 

[Jon]

Hope you left it back rolled for while as that should make it shrink a little
When learning 55 odd years ago all these products of that vintage were hard to lay tight fit so we learned to get things right first time so having tools which needed being set up just for us re the bend to make sure the point on one leg hits the skirting boards, you start with a slight gap with your marks it only gets worse from there
Then asbestos backed vinyls of which we found would shrink when folded back on them selves to glue so we cut them slightly tight then shrink them in by forcibly pushing the vinyl into the skirting boards first which would make the room vinyl shrink into its self
Now these plastic backed vinyls came out so we had to learn again as they would not shrink into themselves, s6raight edge had to line just covering your ball point mark, other side vinyl too short
Filling around the gaps on the walls was looked at a cowboy job
That point on your scribers does not have to be sharp as you are only using it against the walls

 

[highup]

Yesterday, I unrolled it on the floor and rolled it backwards once from each end and then I rolled it sideways a little bit to get rid of the curl.
It laid there overnight. Today, I rolled it backwards a little bit again and tightly sideways into a cone shape to flatten out the end curl.
After that I spent an hour making the pattern and then cut the material out but it was too late to glue it in, so it's still laying flat on the floor and tomorrow we plan to do a dry fit to see how we will handle this weird piece getting it into place. I've got four lineup marks on it. If it's still shrinks a little bit on the ends it simply going to wind up with a little caulking. I told that to the customer when I measured up the job 6 months ago and they had no issues with it. They're expecting it even though I don't want to put any on there. Well I do, but only a small bead of clear silicone.
I probably haven't installed a piece of linoleum in over 10 years as it's just not common around here.
There's only one way to learn this behavior and that's exactly what I'm doing right now. The only thing I don't know because of my lack of experience with this is how much it will shrink in 8 and 1/2 ft of length.
That's 64th of an inch at each end or 32nd? ..... 1/8 of an inch at each end?
I'll find out tomorrow.
On the first install that I did with marmoleum the old installer that sold the job told me to be sure and leave a gap between the seams because the linoleum will expand and that if I didn't leave the gap it would buckle there.
I left a tiny gap about the size of a razor blade and the material barely even moved. Well so much for a learning experience, I learned he was wrong.

 

[Jon]

Yesterday, I unrolled it on the floor and rolled it backwards once from each end and then I rolled it sideways a little bit to get rid of the curl.
It laid there overnight. Today, I rolled it backwards a little bit again and tightly sideways into a cone shape to flatten out the end curl.
After that I spent an hour making the pattern and then cut the material out but it was too late to glue it in, so it's still laying flat on the floor and tomorrow we plan to do a dry fit to see how we will handle this weird piece getting it into place. I've got four lineup marks on it. If it's still shrinks a little bit on the ends it simply going to wind up with a little caulking. I told that to the customer when I measured up the job 6 months ago and they had no issues with it. They're expecting it even though I don't want to put any on there. Well I do, but only a small bead of clear silicone.
I probably haven't installed a piece of linoleum in over 10 years as it's just not common around here.
There's only one way to learn this behavior and that's exactly what I'm doing right now. The only thing I don't know because of my lack of experience with this is how much it will shrink in 8 and 1/2 ft of length.
That's 64th of an inch at each end or 32nd? ..... 1/8 of an inch at each end?
I'll find out tomorrow.
On the first install that I did with marmoleum the old installer that sold the job told me to be sure and leave a gap between the seams because the linoleum will expand and that if I didn't leave the gap it would buckle there.
I left a tiny gap about the size of a razor blade and the material barely even moved. Well so much for a learning experience, I learned he was wrong.

I would have folded a foot or so back on the angle then pushed firmly the back of the Marmo into its self to get rid of the end curl and that should shrink the Marmo a fraction as well, then cut the Marmo, the flatter you can get it before you start makes life easier trying to glue it, helps on those thick commercial vinlys as well with the end roll curl
Do not worry about the sides as they dont have that curl
Dont forget you can scrape the Marmo then mix up with that runny wood type glue PVA? to fill small gaps