Side Match They Said

[JPfloor]

LOL yes. We're told to run the knap towards the entry so as to "kick" the knap up instead of walking it down.

I always thought it was because carpet, especially dense cut piles, appear much richer and luxurious looking into the nap.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Don't anyone know why the nap goes to the front of the house and down the stairs? It is from yesteryear before vacuums. Rugs were sweep with brooms. If it went the other way it threw the dirt back into the steps or house. As the old adage goes down the steps out the door.

 

[C.J.]

Don't anyone know why the nap goes to the front of the house and down the stairs? It is from yesteryear before vacuums. Rugs were sweep with brooms. If it went the other way it threw the dirt back into the steps or house. As the old adage goes down the steps out the door.

Learn something every day.

So when you write up the report, how do you word that. We know the customer isn’t happy but whose fault is it. Or is your report neutral if that’s possible. You just report that there is no side match issue as claimed to be and that due to the construction of the carpet, some seams will be more visible than others? Can’t be possible to say that, that sounds too honest.

 

[Floorist]

Learn something every day.

So when you write up the report, how do you word that. We know the customer isn’t happy but whose fault is it. Or is your report neutral if that’s possible. You just report that there is no side match issue as claimed to be and that due to the construction of the carpet, some seams will be more visible than others? Can’t be possible to say that, that sounds too honest.

I always told customers that I could not promise that seams would be invisible. Never had one question it.

 

[DarisMulkin]

A seam is a flaw no matter how you look at it. You cannot cut and put the carpet back together in the exact same gage as what it is when tuffed. The slightest variance can cause the seam to show. When we used to hand sew it was a known fact that the seam would show. When the iron came out some sales person said that they would be invisible. Someone should have taken him out behind the barn for a slight adjust to his thinking. I always asked my customers if the seams in their clothes or mink coat showed? It is no different with carpet. But always did everything to get the least amount of visiblity as possible. And even carriied more than one kind of seam tape on the buss. Orcon's SU-90 being one of my favorite as it was a low profile and a urathane tape.

 

[JPfloor]

!

When we used to hand sew it was a known fact that the seam would show.

Sure… We use to sew woven goods selvedge to selvedge all the time… No hiding that… With 27” Wilton’s goods the seams became part of the pattern… Hurty Gurty… Not sure if that still goes on anymore?

Now everyone wants invisible… We also did a lot of work with mills (Tai Ping, Edward Fields) that did custom tufting, no seams. Some widths up to 24’… Delivery was always fun…

 

[driftinwoods]

Don't anyone know why the nap goes to the front of the house and down the stairs? It is from yesteryear before vacuums. Rugs were sweep with brooms. If it went the other way it threw the dirt back into the steps or house. As the old adage goes down the steps out the door.

Yep, you can see that happen when you brush the carpet back with your hand and there's tufts and stuff laying around.

On the report I just say there is no side match problem. Or you can say "this is not a manufacturing problem." I usually add "in my professional opinion first."

Just like a claim I finished yesterday on LVP gapping on end joints. Dummies sold a click in a commercial application, assisted living, dining room with wheel chairs rolling around. Cut and caulked tight to door casings, thresholds tightened down on it. It's busted up gapped and to make matters worse theres extensive water damage in a localized area next to a kitchen wall where there's a water source. Broken end joints next to the chair feet. Oy! Idiots abound.
All I had to do is show pics really. But In my professional opinion I said it was not a manufacturing issue.
I could have said it was a mis-spec'd floor and should not have sold a click in a commercial application but I'll just let the rep, store and manufacturer argue about that.

 

[Incognito]

Just like a claim I finished yesterday on LVP gapping on end joints. Dummies sold a click in a commercial application, assisted living, dining room with wheel chairs rolling around. Cut and caulked tight to door casings, thresholds tightened down on it. It's busted up gapped and to make matters worse theres extensive water damage in a localized area next to a kitchen wall where there's a water source. Broken end joints next to the chair feet. Oy! Idiots abound.
All I had to do is show pics really. But In my professional opinion I said it was not a manufacturing issue.
I could have said it was a mis-spec'd floor and should not have sold a click in a commercial application but I'll just let the rep, store and manufacturer argue about that.

The term "light commercial" was what I recall in the literature. That's weasel wording for--------good luck! I have to say I haven't seen the newer vinyl products failing in commercial the way I saw a lot of laminate. Those were abject failures where I just laughed and got my camera out for ***** and giggles. The worst ones I recall would be typically those smallish retail stores in strip malls or even the mega-mall application. Worse was I was sent to fix was also a nursing home/assisted living. They also did everything wrong in the installation.

Eyesore.........soon becomes Trip Hazard. When I was repairing carpet in malls I taught the store managers to complain not about eyesores and degrading the ambiance of the store but use the words TRIP HAZARD if you actually expect money for repairs.

 

[driftinwoods]

The term "light commercial" was what I recall in the literature. That's weasel wording for--------good luck! I have to say I haven't seen the newer vinyl products failing in commercial the way I saw a lot of laminate. Those were abject failures where I just laughed and got my camera out for ***** and giggles. The worst ones I recall would be typically those smallish retail stores in strip malls or even the mega-mall application. Worse was I was sent to fix was also a nursing home/assisted living. They also did everything wrong in the installation.

Eyesore.........soon becomes Trip Hazard. When I was repairing carpet in malls I taught the store managers to complain not about eyesores and degrading the ambiance of the store but use the words TRIP HAZARD if you actually expect money for repairs.

Exactly, the "Light Commercial" wording is a problem. Let them figure out what that means between themselves. I would say IMO it is, just because it's only used three times a day by about 50 people. But it's that rolling wheel chairs and stuff takes a toll on the floor. Especially when it locked in everywhere.

I used to do "Trip Hazard" repairs for a company that had lots of cooperate 500 clients. Gotts to get in early or after hours, do the repair and get out in a couple hours. That mean patch and glue has to dry in time to glue down products. Usually pretty easy and you can bill out around 4 to 500 bucks a whack.
The company would also want you to do entryways and wipe off areas for shoes. Most times they would send three times what you needed. You can run into almost any floor so you better be experienced in all flooring.

 

[highup]

I’ve only seen one installer that would stretch an entire house first then go back and burn all his seams at the end. No peaking or anything.

Most of us have made virtually invisible seams, only to have them peah when stretched. Seam tape does not stretch at remotely the same rate as the carpet.
Prestretching isn't all that important except for living rooms or large bedrooms or rooms with hard lighting.
I wish I could find an old photo to post.....
...or maybe it's already here.

 

[highup]

The term "light commercial" was what I recall in the literature. That's weasel wording for--------good luck! I have to say I haven't seen the newer vinyl products failing in commercial the way I saw a lot of laminate. Those were abject failures where I just laughed and got my camera out for ***** and giggles. The worst ones I recall would be typically those smallish retail stores in strip malls or even the mega-mall application. Worse was I was sent to fix was also a nursing home/assisted living. They also did everything wrong in the installation.

Eyesore.........soon becomes Trip Hazard. When I was repairing carpet in malls I taught the store managers to complain not about eyesores and degrading the ambiance of the store but use the words TRIP HAZARD if you actually expect money for repairs.

We have a small local market where Coretec was installed 5 years ago. The concrete floor was too out of whack two level to spec, but it was .....smoothed. it was one of their heavier products before all this thin stuff came out.
There aren't any broken end joints that I can tell, but the material is cupped badly and isn't long for life.
They have mopped it heavily with a rag mop every night since it was installed. Lotsa Pinesol
Why is it mopped? Because Coretec it completely waterproof, that's why.
The floor gets zero direct sunlight.
The store is getting a new owner so I guess somebody is a floor to replace.

 

[highup]

Okie dokie it's only been a few years.
https://www.flooringforum.com/threads/installation-tips-satire.5829/post-59548

 

[DarisMulkin]

Seam peaking is the law of physics. Stretch/tension wants to go in a straight line. When the carpet is cut and a tape be it 4" or 6" is applied to the back of the carpet the tension/stretch want to go under the seam tape forcing the center up, the cut line being the weakest point so up it raises to form that straight line. It will peak the same amount even though it is 4" tape or 6. It is just 6" spreads it out more. It will rise the thickness of the backing. So if you got a berber with a 1/4" backing it will rise up 1/4". Take a wide rubber band and put a cut on the edge and stretch it. The cut will raise up.
Then you have seam profiling. That is when it is showing the tape.
You can't win when it comes to seams, they are a flaw.

 

[MSLI]

You can't win when it comes to seams, they are a flaw.

Great explanation Darris, CFI HALL OF FAME well deserved winner
( hey ! Did you ever get a chance to give a speech)

Does Orcon still sell SU-90 ? Maybe I should try it before my body makes me retire I never new there was a urethane tape. Please explain the difference from thermoplastic.

 

[Incognito]

We have a small local market where Coretec was installed 5 years ago. The concrete floor was too out of whack two level to spec, but it was .....smoothed. it was one of their heavier products before all this thin stuff came out.
There aren't any broken end joints that I can tell, but the material is cupped badly and isn't long for life.
They have mopped it heavily with a rag mop every night since it was installed. Lotsa Pinesol
Why is it mopped? Because Coretec it completely waterproof, that's why.
The floor gets zero direct sunlight.
The store is getting a new owner so I guess somebody is a floor to replace.

I wonder what causes the curl?
Yours is a relatively mild climate so you're not getting 100 degree plus days for weeks on end with a drastic cooling swing overnight like we do here in the desert. I though Coretec was one of the better names. Could be product deficiency or possibly poor conditions/abuse. If you cant scrub the floor down in a market then that flooring shouldn't be approved by the Health Department.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Nope never got to do a speech. Karen wanted to but we had to stay on the floor as she can't do steps very well. She was bumming over that.
Su-90 is a urethane tape, it basically sticks to everything like the Koolglide tape, same tuff I think. Anyway it is a very low melting tape like put your iron on 2 and go just as fast as you would on 3 or 4. You would need to clean of the bottom of your iron and get rid of the old thermo, not saying you need to polish it but scrub it good on the back of some carpet. The tape is not as thinck as regular thermo. I went to that on most of my seams as it didn't profile like regular tape. I think Orcon is still in the tape business as they were one of the first companies in the aerospace industry with their thermo. I'll check with my supplier in the morning. All. urethane tapes I have ever seen it is clear.

 

[highup]

Seam peaking is the law of physics. Stretch/tension wants to go in a straight line. When the carpet is cut and a tape be it 4" or 6" is applied to the back of the carpet the tension/stretch want to go under the seam tape forcing the center up, the cut line being the weakest point so up it raises to form that straight line. It will peak the same amount even though it is 4" tape or 6. It is just 6" spreads it out more. It will rise the thickness of the backing. So if you got a berber with a 1/4" backing it will rise up 1/4". Take a wide rubber band and put a cut on the edge and stretch it. The cut will raise up.
Then you have seam profiling. That is when it is showing the tape.
You can't win when it comes to seams, they are a flaw.

That only explains the tension effect related to the X axis, not how the Z axis affects the X axis in this scenario. Makers of higher end carpet tell you to do that..... so do I.
I'd absolutely made a difference in my seams, but maybe not in anyone else's.