What did you do today?

havasu said:

Well, I guess it depends on what she looks like?

Yes, sick retired cop humor.

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Nice , I needed that, I’m over thinking once again, can’t help it. Actually I’m doing it now. Since I sat on the shop vac for 15 minutes writing that above question , should I subtract that time from the possible bill ….. So this is what a rabbit hole looks like

Went to the Flyers game last night, Carolina Hurricane’s ( fitting name after the storm) tornadoed through the Flyers like they were a high school hockey team

MSLI said:

I’m the one who hired the none power stretching guy and history ( the past 21years ) tells me that 99% of power stretched units do not wrinkle….. In case you did not notice, I’m diving deep into the ‘ manner ‘ or methods used and how they matter when discerning liabilities. Carpet install or other human services.

Let’s do a hypothetical : Old **** neglects to inform retailer about wrinkles in a timely manner and the installer neglected to use the power stretcher . **** trips falls down stairs and dies. When litigating the law suit for liability, the means and manner will most definitely be a factor during judgment time…… If you were on the jury what percentage of liability would you place on both parties ?

My discernment would be to place a claim number on the retailer + installer jointly because they created the hazard, but then subtract 25% due to the woman’s neglect to inform. However if the installer could prove they power stretched the carpet and have a history of delivering none wrinkled carpets, does that knowledge of industry standards delivered change the percentage of liability ? Say to 50 50 ? or even 100 % onto the dead **** ?

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You lost me there. Are we going down a moral road of thought? If so then since you were the one who hired so n so and blah blah, then yeah, knock a few bucks off cus you feel bad. Don't mean to come off as an ass but that’s what this is about when you get right down to it.

On the other hand, if f we’re looking at this as a business transaction, the customer got 12 years out of an install before needing a restretch and you should charge them because you only offer a one year warranty. Did you offer the customer a lifetime warranty? If no then business dictates that they got what they paid for and you need to be paid for the repair because this is a whole new transaction, because you’ve fulfilled the requirements of the previous one.

It’s OK to be a good person, but you got to get paid if you want to survive so that you can continue being a good person.

C.J. said:

You lost me there. Are we going down a moral road of thought?

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Thanks for engaging, I’ve been diving into deep waters of Scruples, more than usual ….. It’s been a world win of insanity, and being on edge for the past 8 years, with no definitive answers towards improvement…..I guess I’m searching for some kind of formula that brings clarity, and then maybe a desire to improve. I’m using everyday experience from flooring to find similarities. …. If we choose to take short cuts in life, the possibility of failure in 12 years or so is much higher and could happen more frequently than if we chose proven standards. The idea came while in the middle of power stretching ….I saw the similarity of a perceived good service on day one ( flat carpet ) only to be followed by disappointment years later. ….. If society continues to abandon standards of service in trades or in humanities, will the percentages of liability increase and the restoration process prove costly

Here's my thinking. It's 100% her fault because she's tripped or stumbled over the wrinkles a couple dozen times over the past two or three years and never notified the retailer.
She new it was an issue and did nothing.
Now, if the wrinkles suddenly appeared over an 8 hour period as she slept... and subsequently tripped on the newly formed Jack and the Beanstalk wrinkle..... Well in that case it's the installers fault.

MSLI said:

Thanks for engaging, I’ve been diving into deep waters of Scruples, more than usual ….. It’s been a world win of insanity, and being on edge for the past 8 years, with no definitive answers towards improvement…..I guess I’m searching for some kind of formula that brings clarity, and then maybe a desire to improve. I’m using everyday experience from flooring to find similarities. …. If we choose to take short cuts in life, the possibility of failure in 12 years or so is much higher and could happen more frequently than if we chose proven standards. The idea came while in the middle of power stretching ….I saw the similarity of a perceived good service on day one ( flat carpet ) only to be followed by disappointment years later. ….. If society continues to abandon standards of service in trades or in humanities, will the percentages of liability increase and the restoration process prove costly

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I gotcha but there is no short answer to your ponderings. The entire world is going to **** and it’s all because of money (profit). Dude booting in rug instead of power stretching is nothing more than shrinkflation. And if he was doing that 12 years ago, does that mean he’s ahead of the curve? You see this crap every day with new smaller portion sized items or levels of service for the same price yet when an individual does it, as opposed to a corporation, somehow it’s wrong. Why are we, as individuals, held to a different standard than the rest of the world around us. Ponder that for a minute while you’re eating your Big Mac that looks absolutely nothing like the picture you’re shown on the menu board, and you knew that before you even bought it.

MSLI said:

I saw the similarity of a perceived good service on day one ( flat carpet ) only to be followed by disappointment years later. ….. If society continues to abandon standards of service in trades or in humanities, will the percentages of liability increase and the restoration process prove costly

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Overtone’s Window refers to what is politically acceptable at the current time. Remove the political aspect and insert something else, like floor covering or just business in general, and it’s really no different. The public sets the standard for what is acceptable to them, the window, and anybody that wants to succeed has to be within that window. The window changes over time. What you’re imagining the way floor covering should be is the way it used to be, because that’s where the window was, during your formative years of learning the trade. Things change and the window has moved. Sending out some hack to boot in a job is more acceptable now than it was back then. Problem is if that’s what you’re telling your customers they’re getting, you’ll have no customers. So you put up a picture of a big juicy perfectly assembled hamburger and that’s what you go with. Just like the hamburger, people know that’s not what they’re actually getting but as long as that’s what you show and tell them, they’ll keep buying it even though they know it’s a lie.

So now you know that you can lie to people and they’ll happily accept it, are you really in the wrong for lying to them since it’s what they really want to hear. Now instead of lying you’re giving the customer what they want. They’re happy and you made money. It’s F’d up but that’s where the window currently is. If you want to be successful you kinda gotta be within that window yourself.

highup said:

Jack and the Beanstalk wrinkle...

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You have the greatest sense of humor Randy

C.J. said:

. If you want to be successful you kinda gotta be within that window yourself.

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That’s a great way to describe current culture as a window…… Just the other day I was looking through an old binder book, that went with me every day to measuring jobs, and guess what printed article was inside? ….. A David Hunt opinion piece from TFP It was imho spot on back then and even more so now. I’ll post some excerpts soon, that may or may not provide a closer look into the windowed options we didn’t think was important for success.

Disclaimer: The installer I hired has just as much respect, if not more, for this trade as I do. So even though what you and I see as ‘ kicker Jockey dis-respect’ there’s something else going on and that’s why the study of Humanities is so incredibly layered and complex . My wish and hope for society as a whole, separate from The Political Policy’s like Economics, Border Security, etc. is to increase awareness and knowledge of the importance
of ‘ Respectful Means and Manner ‘ in everyday language and activities……. I study this crap and still way behind the eight ball, failing on a daily basis….. Sorry brother, ( my co-worker) I’m working towards less mean and more Respectful Means and I encourage everyone to examine their own. If it’s to be, it’s up to me.

MSLI said:

You have the greatest sense of humor Randy

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I could never make any money at it. I think too slow. That bean stalk line took 6 hours and four re-writes before my publisher accepted it for publication.

I did a carpet repair in a rented house for a friend's daughter. It really just needs replacing, but they probably want their deposit back. I hope this helps.
Looks much better now.
When it gets cleaned, I hope it looks much, much better.
It's the strangest patch job I recall doing. Strangest method I've ever used anyway.

The leftover carpet from 2016 looked totally different. The entire carpet in the hall looked darker, not just the traffic areas. The carpet was evenly darker, right up to the walls. Weird
The carpet rem stored in the basement was about 4' by 10' so plenty of material.
My initial thought was to row cut from the stair post to the far wall. The remnant didn't even want to let me run a row, so I was leary of making an 8 foot seam with carpet that absolutely wouldn't match color wise.
So I experimented and it looked promising....... So what the heck. I went for hole patching instead of replacing a 4 by 8 section of the hallway.
I never took a "before" photo, so I tossed the damaged pieces back in place so you can get an idea what the dogs did.
....it's just a visual reenactment.
Three places in all.

I used a couple different tips on my hot glue gun to seam seal the cut edges.
I used the Orcon tip to seal the repair piece and part of the existing hallway carpet edges.
I have a 1/16" or so tip and used that for the curved portion, or the radius of the hallway cut. The Orcon tip doesn't fit into tight spots. It's pretty limited.
That tiny tip is much more controllable when dispensing the hot glue.
Sealing with that tiny tip is slow going because you want to just seal that edge, not slobber hot glue all over and have it ooze up all over when heating the seam. It's a dance.
I used the KoolGlide and my home built SeamerDown to put it together.
I can't imagine doing a patch like this without a KoolGlide.
If I was taking out a loan to start a carpet installation business, this tool would be a must have in my tool list.
I'd love to own one, but the shop lets me use theirs when I need it.

You can see what I was doing here with the funky repair.
The repair location is most of the... funkyness.
I'd normally avoid putting seams here. These were constructed well, so they ought to hold up for a long time regardless.

I opted for repairing each of the damaged spots for a couple of reasons. Less noticeable and faster.
Smaller is better, right.
Faster? I knew this surgery method was not going to be faster. Skip that idea. think surgery, not chop saw
I hoped it would be better with the method I chose. Time wasn't an issue to me. I wanted the best result.
(The home is getting put on the market the day these renters move out)
No holes are better than holes and the new owner will absolutely be replacing the carpet. These patches are less tacky to a person looking to purchase the home than the holes would be. Hopefully the carpet cleaning will help a bit more. I'm sure it will. I don't really care....I did my part.
Square cornered patches work in clean, relatively new carpet. Not so much here.
I'm trying to be deceptive with my 1/2 moon cuts in old, dirty carpet. Much better I think than square corners on this one.
(Think serpentine straightedge)
I'm happy, they're happy..... Everyone is happy. Nice end to the week.
This is color contrast is much less noticeable in person. I took my bright white 48 led shop light there to help with the repair. The hall has just 2 small recessed ceiling lights, and no windows.
My bright light amplifies the contrast in the patch.

C.J. said:

Just like the hamburger, people know that’s not what they’re actually getting but as long as that’s what you show and tell them, they’ll keep buying it even though they know it’s a lie.

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It’s Magic ! A distortion between reality and perception and If we’re not careful, this accepted illusion, that’s in the
‘ popular ‘ and ‘ accepted ‘ Overtone’s Window ‘ could actually be in the
‘ Radical ‘ and ‘ Unthinkable ‘ one
And if that has any merit, and the Magicians are still working and became elevated into mentorship status, we as a society have an uphill battle on our hands.
Just like power stretching installers do, because we get no respect. BUT GUESS WHAT? Respect is an inside job and until we accept that, we will continue to be vulnerable to deceptions.

Who ! And WHAT ! will be the gate keepers remedy in this world of Magical
Acceptance ? …….. The answer: Self Respect ! But not just any kind, it needs to be Radical Self Respect.

Ok, now for David’s excerpt from an article he wrote, titled, Flooring Retailer and Installer, Is it a Valued Working Partnership ? ….. He said No !

“ People who have respect for themselves and their profession will and do attract people who value and appreciate these traits. When we respect ourselves we begin to understand this fact of reality.
We are equally comfortable with the customers who value are professionalism as we are with those who do not. We know we do not live in a one size fits all world “

Mike speaking now :
In conclusion, Radical Self Respect may be the formula we could revisit, seek
out, and display more often and see what happens. The most important part is to allow this Respect to run parallel with, not against any Magicians looking to deceive.
True self respect (remember it’s an inside job ) doesn’t impose upon or criticize but is rather a testament of your values and beliefs, possibly impressive enough to inspire and invite others to join in.

Let’s be self respecting power stretching Gate Keepers who do not judge those who do not, but rather take that judgement inward and reaffirm those values.

highup said:

Hopefully the carpet cleaning will help a bit more. I'm sure it will. I don't really care....I did my part.

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The poor carpet cleaner is gonna scrub every chemical in the truck, trying to match that patch …..The repair part is done really well and something tells me, there is care

Hopefully they don't try to overdo the cleaning. I think the repair is pretty bulletproof, but if they save cleaning right to the day they move out... Damp carpet in an unheated house this time of year will not end well.
I'm gonna bring that up with them. They are best off with a general cleaning, not attempting to make this carpet look new. It just needs to look "presentable"
I'm not sure how much is carpeted. Hall stairs and at least one of the three upstairs bedrooms. Two others might be carpeted, but I'm no snoop.

The carpets in my house were done with some sort of knee kicker thingy. I don't think anything was power-stretched. Don't think the installer had the equipment for that. Been over 20yrs and no wrinkles.

Got hit with fatigue past few days and haven't used internet as much. Been helping my friend with the house. He needs to jump through a few more hoops. The vinyl flooring that curled up is very thin. I'll have to get a picture of the flooring boxes and the damage. We got an area rug to put over it and don't think the appraiser will look under the rug, but aren't sure.

Watched Deadpool & Wolverine movie.

About to take a nap.

20 years ago they still made decent carpet
Some will get wrinkles easier than others. Pad type makes a big difference, room size and shape come into play and so does the walking areas.
If it was installed in the summer and it was hot, that might be a #1 reason that a kicker was successful.
A kicker rarely works so your installation is an exception.
Most carpets that I've restretched were done with a power stretcher, but using a stinger, not wall to wall stretcher tubes.

highup said:

20 years ago they still made decent carpet
Some will get wrinkles easier than others. Pad type makes a big difference, room size and shape come into play and so does the walking areas.
If it was installed in the summer and it was hot, that might be a #1 reason that a kicker was successful.
A kicker rarely works so your installation is an exception.
Most carpets that I've restretched were done with a power stretcher, but using a stinger, not wall to wall stretcher tubes.

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The stinger has kind of taken over the industry even though it is not recomended. If you got carpet that is 20 years old its should be time to replace it.

DarisMulkin said:

The stinger has kind of taken over the industry even though it is not recomended. If you got carpet that is 20 years old its should be time to replace it.

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Editing take 2 :

That knee kicking job was 12 years old and it needed replacing, but what I’m trying to engage is ‘ how ‘ we do what we do, not the outcome.

So to sum up, we have three installation methods for stretch in Carpet. The Most popular to the least popular, Knee Kicker, Stinger Power Stretcher, and then the industry standard, Power Stretching Poles.

These three parallel methods traveling through the installation world are subject to choice or free will and without penalties, incentives or monitoring, acceptance of the different choices seems to makes good common sense…… Will criticism help? No probably not. We are creatures who respond more positively to praise, believe it or not. Consciously we may so no way, but subconsciously we react as yes !

SO ! ….What role do we play, as ‘ Standard Keeper’s’ in the Carpet Installation world? And ! In other areas of life ?

MSLI said:

Editing take 2 :

That knee kicking job was 12 years old and it needed replacing, but what I’m trying to engage is ‘ how ‘ we do what we do, not the outcome.

So to sum up, we have three installation methods for stretch in Carpet. The Most popular to the least popular, Knee Kicker, Stinger Power Stretcher, and then the industry standard, Power Stretching Poles.

These three parallel methods traveling through the installation world are subject to choice or free will and without penalties, incentives or monitoring, acceptance of the different choices seems to makes good common sense…… Will criticism help? No probably not. We are creatures who respond more positively to praise, believe it or not. Consciously we may so no way, but subconsciously we react as yes !

SO ! ….What role do we play, as ‘ Standard Keeper’s’ in the Carpet Installation world? And ! In other areas of life ?

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I'm Polish.... always have beenski.