Discussing politics and religion

[zannej]

I didn't watch all of the footage, just snippets.
I admit, I don't think jabs at Trump were necessary. They made quite a few toward him at Aretha Franklin's funeral. But, it wasn't my family member's funeral so I'm not going to judge. I personally wouldn't have used the remembrance of a loved one as an opportunity to snipe at people. I would want it to be about my loved one & not people who dissed him. I also really hate funerals and have told my family I do not want one when I die.
As for McCain not wanting Trump there, I can't really blame him considering some of the crap Trump said about him and how he wouldn't even allow the White House to officially say something nice about him. I also don't blame McCain's family for not liking Trump.
I do think the criticism of Trump for going golfing during the funeral was not needed. It's not like it's unusual for him to golf on weekends. He was golfing when Melania was in the hospital (which is probably what she wanted). At least it stopped him from rage-tweeting.
I personally thought they made too much of a hullabaloo over Lindsey Graham's father when he died & he never served the country and didn't do anything heroic to justify it.
Back to the McCain funeral, one thing I thought was nice was when Bush Jr got a piece of Candy from Laura and handed it to Michelle Obama. It was just a small moment, but it was sweet. Despite whatever mistakes he made in his presidency, Bush genuinely seems like a nice and caring person.
I could never really tell if Sarah Palin was really that dumb or if the media put a spin to make it look like she was. I mean, I know she said some dumb things, but a lot of people say dumb things at some point. I remember when people thought Dan Quayle was the stupidest man in the US (but he still beat Al Gore in the debates). Then Bush Jr came along and they said he was so dumb & didn't know what he was talking about-- but there were times when it was obvious he was joking.

 

[Nick]

I remember a reporter asking her what she read .. That did it for me ..

 

[Floorist]

 

[Nick]

President Trump’s 2019 budget proposes to cut the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly food stamps) by more than $213 billion over the next ten years — nearly a 30 percent cut — through radically restructuring how benefits are delivered, cutting eligibility for at least 4 million people, and reducing benefits for many others. (See Table 1.)[1] The unemployed, the elderly, and low-income working families with children would bear the brunt of the cuts. These proposals come on the heels of a tax law the President championed that will mainly benefit the wealthy and corporations and that’s expected to add $1.5 trillion to deficits over ten years.

The largest SNAP savings in the budget would come from cutting household benefits by more than $260 billion over ten years. The largest SNAP savings in the budget would come from cutting household benefits by more than $260 billion over ten years — some 40 percent — and using about half these funds to provide households a government-purchased non-perishable food box in lieu of food that households would otherwise purchase at the grocery store. In addition to the enormous benefit cut, the proposal would radically restructure how SNAP benefits are provided for the vast majority of recipients, upending SNAP’s successful and efficient public-private partnership with some 260,000 retail stores around the country in favor a new government-driven approach to procuring food for SNAP households. Such a system would be a significant cost shift to states and nonprofit food distributors, and would be disruptive and costly for current SNAP participants.

The President’s budget would also expand the reach of a stringent three-month time limit under the existing program. Currently, SNAP participants age 18 to 49 who are not raising minor children cannot receive benefits for more than three months in a 36-month period unless they work 20 hours a week. States can exempt particularly vulnerable individuals, such as those in high-unemployment areas. But the President’s budget would make qualifying for those exemptions much harder. It also would raise the maximum age for those facing the time limit to 62 beginning in 2021, exposing 2 million more individuals to the limits, including older Americans who face additional obstacles to work.

Other harmful effects of the SNAP provisions in the budget include eliminating a state option that supports working families by addressing a benefit cliff that would otherwise cause working families to lose benefits as their earnings rise; cutting benefits for people with disabilities and for the elderly; penalizing large families; and cutting benefits for many households that pay for utilities out of pocket.


TABLE 1
SNAP Cuts in the President’s 2019 Budget
Proposal Ten-Year Federal Savings from SNAP Cuts
Cut SNAP benefits and shift a portion to food boxes -$131.7 billion
State administrative costs for distributing food boxes $2.5 billion
Restrict categorical eligibility -$30.6 billion
Limit time-limit waivers -$17.8 billion
Apply time limit through age 62, and change “elderly” definition to begin at age 63 -$5.9 billion
Eliminate “15% exemptions” from time limit -$3.2 billion
Eliminate minimum benefit -$2.7 billion
Cap large households’ benefit -$1.7 billion
Eliminate Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)/Terminate the SNAP-LIHEAP Connection -$13.1 billion
Impose standardized utility allowances across states -$10.2 billion
Cap state administrative expenses -$9.8 billion
Eliminate SNAP nutrition education -$4.7 billion
Mandate the National Accuracy Clearinghouse -$1.1 billion
Eliminate state performance bonuses -$480 million
Interactions/effect of other budget proposals on SNAP* about $17 billion
Total -$213.5 billion

Take food out of the mouths of the poor so your rich friends can get richer .. Can't wait for Muller to bust you trump..

 

[highup]

"SNAP nutrition education"
I can see that one going.
Teaching people that it's not healthy to eat ice cream and cookies?
Teaching people that vegetables are good for you?
Teaching people that it's good to exercise?
That program is a waste of 4.7 billion.

 

[Floorist]

A couple of problems. Healthy food costs more than stuff like pasta and beans. In many inner city areas, fresh produce is almost impossible to find and many of the people don't have transportation to go get it. Some have to spend their SNAP at convenience stores and pay the higher prices, because those are the only stores in their area. I worked in downtown KC and you could go for many blocks without seeing a grocery store.

 

[Nick]

I wish i knew when the trump supporters are going to take off the rose colored glasses and see this creep for what he really is ..

He is coming after you guys to .. Make no mistake about it ..

 

[havasu]

Someone has to do some drastic measures to curb this spending. SNAP is a suppose to be a helping hand, until folks can get on their feet. It is not suppose to be a sustainable lifestyle for the lazy. Yes, there are folks that really need it, and sure, let them have it. The other 90% realize that it is much easier to sit on their asses rather then going out and being productive. Our biggest failure IMHO is the Welfare system. We reward families by pumping out more kids, therefore getting more money in their pockets. They should receive a set amount, and if they have more kids, that is on them and not on the taxpaying folks.

I'm not rich by any imagination but was taught very young that if you don't work, you don't eat. I sure as hell don't want to pay a higher tax to supplement these lazy ass people who are too busy drinking and pumping out kids.

Bottom line, Trump is doing the reform necessary to maintain society. That is why I still support his efforts. California's tax paying citizens are bailing out of the state by the thousands. We are tired of the select few shouldering the costs of the lazy on their backs. What happens when all the tax payers finally leave this state? Who is going to fund the lazy bums? Would you folks in other states like to carry the load and pay more taxes to help us out?

I thought not!

 

[Nick]

drastic measures like giving all his rich friends millions in tax cuts they said they didn't want ?

 

[zannej]

The problem is not that people are lazy and/or not working. The problem is that people are not making living wages, many employees got laid off so the companies can avoid being "high on labor", or the employees are given much shorter hours, and there are people who should be on unemployment but who got denied & can't even appeal (My brother never got any sort of hearing or chance to give his side, was rejected, appealed, and never got a reply & can't do another appeal until they process the first one- which I'm pretty sure they just tossed in the garbage). Around here it is almost impossible to get Unemployment.

If someone gets injured on the job or becomes disabled, it takes months to file & get approval-- and often times people get denied even if they truly need it and are not being lazy or faking.

The unemployment rates in my area are very high but Unemployment dismissed them and won't even let them apply/appeal. These people are actively seeking work but they can't afford gas, there's no public transportation, no bike lanes (bikes get stolen all the time), no sidewalks to walk on to get to grocery stores, and it becomes increasingly difficult for them to travel bc they don't have $. Yet they are expected to meet with people in another town an hour away (sometimes 2 hrs) to qualify for benefits or to get benefits renewed (and that is if they even get approved).

My working friends are hurting because they the $ from food stamps to buy food but they just got their benefits cut. My friend's fiance (who can't work until she gets her heart surgery and recovers from it) is currently trying to get SNAP. She was told she will have to wait a few months to find out if she qualifies for any assistance until she can get well enough to return to work.

There are also people who are fulltime caregivers who have to take care of either children or adults that can not take care of themselves. Sometimes the parents wasted their $ and don't have anything to subsist off of. Some of them never earned enough in the first place but now they are being supported by their children. Their SS is not enough to survive on.

I know people who are working but who are still going hungry even though they are working.

My biggest beef with the tax reform was the huge tax cuts for the top 1%. It hurts the rest of the economy and those people did not need the cuts. They are not starving. Some of them don't even work and are just trust fund/hedge fund babies. I don't have any hostility toward people for being born privileged, but I do have an issue with people who think they are better than others just because they were born rich. That sense of entitlement is not good from anyone.

People who are born into families with more $ just have more opportunities. They can afford better education, have college paid for by trust funds or parents so they don't have to worry about student loans and going in to debt-- or don't have to worry about working while in school to pay tuition or expenses. That makes their resumes look better so they can get better jobs-- of course, that is in areas where better jobs exist. But they can afford to travel to find better jobs. IF they even bother to work. They can also generally afford better medical care. People who have to struggle for everything can't even afford toilet paper or food so they go hungry and they get sick but they can't afford medical care so it is harder for them to work. They can't afford schooling so they can't get degrees to get better jobs. People used to be able to work part time to go to college-- not so anymore. With the tuition inflation rates compared to minimum wage, people would have to work something like 80+ hours a week to pay for a good college. Even if they get a degree and end up not being in debt with student loans, they still might not find good jobs.

Ask yourselves: Why give these huge cuts to large corporations and top 1%ers when they have admitted that they won't use it to pay their employees more, did not plan to hire more people, and basically just put it in stocks or bank accounts to make themselves richer without any benefit to the rest of the country? And the needy starving people are the ones being blamed for the deficit?

As for the paying more taxes: People in my state are already paying more taxes. The tax bill made our state taxes go up in response. They lowered the amount people could earn to get Medicaid. Sales tax is 11%. And the state tax cannot be deducted from Federal anymore so people got double-taxed.

The supposed tax cuts for the middle class and lower income people is only temporary and does not do much compared to the huge tax cuts the rich got.

Middle class and upper middle class people in general have been able to take the hits a bit better, but lower income people got hit hard.

 

[highup]

Hating the rich doesn't make sense. Taxing them more won't do anything because there aren't enough of them compared to the working class. (working class meaning under $1 million per year)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danbig...ax-the-rich-the-rich-dont-have-enough-really/
"Progressives claim an increase in tax rates won’t stop producers from producing. But they presumably understand that people don’t work for free. When the top marginal rate was 90 percent, actor Ronald Reagan worked just half the year. As soon as he made enough money such that every additional dollar was taxed at 90 percent, he stopped working and went off to ride horses. Reagan later said that woke him up to the damage that high taxes impose."

And Reagan certainly wasn't the only person that understood this. Everyone with the financial equivalent of Reagan would do the same thing if they had 1/2 a brain. Why work if the government is going to take almost everything you earn?
If they get taxed too much, they won't invest money in new businesses or new products. (Investments are not loop holes) They won't buy nice cars or a boat, a second or third home. ....and by the way, they to pay taxes on those homes boats and cars, and insurance and groundskeepers and upkeep and security. Also , how about the contractors that build the homes, the architects, the plumbers, electricians, roofers............ The positive effects are endless.
How many of us know how much the super rich pay in taxes each year?

 

[Nick]

Well we don't know what trump pays ..

 

[highup]

.....but I don't care.
The IRS knows and they aren't complaining so why should I.
He's not taking a salary. I think that's nice.

 

[highup]

....and just to be fair I don't care what Pelosi pays either. None of my business.

 

[havasu]

When we are born, there are many paths and options available. I could have smoked pot all day and flipped burgers at Mc Donalds, and jumped into the welfare system. Instead, I went to a community college, and it took 7 years to get my 2 year degree. Nobody gave me a free ride. I chose to get into law enforcement and went through the academy, all while taking care of my three young children.

I really don't understand folks getting angry just because of the path I took, or assume I was given any special treatment. I paid my taxes on time, and I too could care less what others pay in their taxes. It makes no difference. People say it is the repubs that are dividing this country, but just looking at the posts in here, the true dividers are the libs and their "US vs. THEM attitudes".

 

[highup]

Have, I think the current state of attitude is caused 99% because of the liberal media drumming into our heads on an hourly beat that the rich are evil people bent on making lives for the elderly, the children, the working class as miserable as they can possibly be. Only when the poor are fighting the chickens for scratch will they be at peace, drinking wine from their golden goblets.
In reality, if the 1% had their tax rate go up 10%, not a person in this country would notice a single dime arrive in their pocket. Not the working class, nor the unemployed or underemployed people Total hype.
Many of them have a lot of money in investments. Those are taxed at a lower rate......... for good reason. Salaries are relatively for sure. Investing is a risk. Risk is encouraged by a lower tax rate because it promotes growth.
Mom and pop have such smaller investments, but it's still a risk......... they get a reduced tax rate too, just like the fat cats, but on a mush smaller scale.
How about we raise the tax rate on investments? Well, that's gonna hurt mom and pop too.
How about we tax high risk investments at a lower rate than low risk investments?
....fine and dandy. Now who's gonna decide what's a high risk and what's a low risk? ...what about medium risk?
How about they give mom and pop a different rate for high risk? ...ok, how much different? Should we give every tax bracket a different rate for high risk and low risk investments.
.................... silly! That would be so complex and messy the accountants couldn't follow it.
Fact is the wealthy have more money to invest in risk.... win or lose. They can also afford to lose more. Life ain't "fair" and never can be.
The tax thing is total politics. We need to get rid of dead programs that are a waste of tax monies, and stop sending money to countries that hate us......... I think Trump has done that.
Tighten the belt by eliminating programs instead of creating new ones.

 

[Floorist]

And with Trump's tax cuts, the deficit just keeps going up.

 

[havasu]

And with Trump's tax cuts, the deficit just keeps going up.

That just proves that government spending is completely out of control. Nobody believed a simple tax cut would correct the 8 years of extravagance from "you know who", but it is a start in the right direction.

 

[Nick]

When we are born, there are many paths and options available. I could have smoked pot all day and flipped burgers at Mc Donalds, and jumped into the welfare system. Instead, I went to a community college, and it took 7 years to get my 2 year degree. Nobody gave me a free ride. I chose to get into law enforcement and went through the academy, all while taking care of my three young children.

I really don't understand folks getting angry just because of the path I took, or assume I was given any special treatment. I paid my taxes on time, and I too could care less what others pay in their taxes. It makes no difference. People say it is the repubs that are dividing this country, but just looking at the posts in here, the true dividers are the libs and their "US vs. THEM attitudes".

Good for you Hav.. I did the same thing , Work in the day County college at night , Homework in early morning ..

 

[Nick]

.....but I don't care.
The IRS knows and they aren't complaining so why should I.
He's not taking a salary. I think that's nice.

We need to see their returns to make sure they are not taking any money from savory sources for one ..