Gun free zone

[Floorist]

Ok, let’s try this, because I refuse to believe there’s no movement to be had, but let’s first explain some intentions.
The MPPPP squad ( medical staff, phycologist, Parents, Police, Parole officers, hey ! Let’s add another ‘P’ Preachers ) are not in place to eliminate gang bang shootings, but to assist gun shop owners to minimize selling guns to troubled law abiding citizens…… I think we just had another tragedy and I believe the gun was legally purchased by a troubled 18 year old. This is what the Phycological kiosk testing or actual interviews and certification testing is all about. To only sell guns to stable, well intentioned citizens, who possess the appropriate skills to carry. How that is treading on someone’s fundamental right is beyond my comprehension…… When we say the pledge of allegiance, we end by saying, for liberty and justice for all ! Not ourselves only…

If the establishment thinks it will help prevent one out of 100 senseless shootings, then imho, it’s worth giving up some time and privacy, for Liberty and Justice for all.

Just like the CFI, an organization with the motto P.R.I.D.E. ( professionalism , responsibility, integrity, dependability, Education) There intention is to honor the trade and the customer ( for all ! ) SO ! can the NRA BE A LEADER ?…. Just because some members of CFI ARE imposter’s doesn’t mean the organization is not important / necessary. Here’s a philosophy moment….. we never know when mentorship awakens in someone but if we never mentor in the first place then PRIDE remains asleep.

If the NRA and its members continues to shut out the views of the opposition, because of what I see, IMHO as Proudly and Patriotically quoting ‘ The Second ‘ rather than listening with IMHO sensible ears or a give and take approach, then it’s quite possible, eventually the fear of gun removal could possibly actually come true.

In conclusion:
The ball is in the NRA’s court. And The next move the NRA makes will determine its future. HINT ! Start cleaning up the purchasing process by attempting to Certify gun ownership to individuals who possess proper intentions and gun readiness. We are not looking for perfection, just practical ideas to minimize tragedies and To give potential victims and suspects a fighting chance to live.

I believe 60 minutes recently did a program on a gun shop owner who has taken the responsibility to interview each new customer and in doing so has saved numerous lives from suicide. This individual would be my pick for the next NRA Leader

PS> in the meantime, metal detectors, security cameras, armed guards and Teachers is probably a good idea also.

Did you know or do you care, the NRA is the one who pushed having the current background check? Without them, it would not exist.
Oh and in 2019, 12,000 were caught lying on the BG check, a felony punishable by 15 years and the government charged 12. ......12 out of 12,000. If they would enforce the current laws, it would probably make a difference. Since they won't, what makes you think they would enforce any new ones?
Did you know, if you remove the gang murders, the US would have one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world? And most of the guns used in gang shootings were stolen or purchased illegally. But, there again, most gang violence is in cities where Democrats control and they refuse to lock up black men because it would hurt their votes. Black men are around 5% of the total population and commit 60% of all murders and 70% of all violent crime.
Even the FBI statistics show that is rare for a legal gun owner to commit a crime. Percentage wise, even the police commit more crime than legal private gun owners. And new laws only end up punishing those who are not criminals. So, no, we don't need any more gun laws.

 

[Floorist]

One other note, Bill Clinton fought background checks. Either Washington or Oregon passed a law requiring background checks on private sales even though the sheriff's association told them that there would be no way to enforce it. That was several years ago and last I read no one had ever been arrested for violating it.

 

[highup]

We have 336,600,000 million people in the country.... Probably 340,000,000 by next Friday
That said, what are the odds of a person being murdered in the US?
Who did it?
A mentally ill person?
Maybe a robbery.
Drive by shooting accident?
Crime of passion? (cheating spouse)
Accident?
Suicide?
Mass shooting/suicide?
Mass shooting/totally sane person?
Disgruntled or fired employee?
Lastly, what is an "acceptable" number of murders?

This number is very important.
If you answered zero, then you are for the total abolishment of guns in the US.
If you answered 697, that's the number in Chicago last year.
LA, less than 400. San Francisco also less than 400.
576 in South Carolina.
In 2022, 100 people were killed in "mass shootings"
From the media, you'd think it was 10 x more, a daily occurrence.
Mass shooting doesn't mean 20 or 50, it means multiple........ Fill in the blank.
Whatever numbers you derive from this, consider the population of the US, then do the math.
Enforce to the max, current gun laws......
A year after, see what affect it has on statistics.
Liberal states let criminals out early, or just do catch and release.
Why? ....why?
Enforce the laws we already have, lock up criminals then, next year, publish the new, LOWER crime stats.

 

[MSLI]

I want zero innocent deaths and everyone who qualifies through reasonable testing to carry. ( Could be a mandatory law, but doesn’t have to be, and the testing could be specific to each and every different community.

An unrealistic goal for sure BUT ! worth pursuing anyway, no matter what the MATH SAYS. If math is the motivation to keep the status quo, then motivation to improve is none existent.

We need to do everything all at once. Tighten up laws, criminal sentencing , rehab techniques, and so on ! The improvement ideas must never end.

Hey Daris ! ….. please except my apology (for my part ) in bringing / continuing to have the CFI in this gun topic and about activating resentment feelings. How can I make this up ?
My intentions where one of promoting certifications in general and that they are a worth wild pursuit.

 

[highup]

I want zero innocent deaths and everyone who qualifies through reasonable testing to carry. ( Could be a mandatory law, but doesn’t have to be, and the testing could be specific to each and every different community.

An unrealistic goal for sure BUT ! worth pursuing anyway, no matter what the MATH SAYS. If math is the motivation to keep the status quo, then motivation to improve is none existent.

We need to do everything all at once. Tighten up laws, criminal sentencing , rehab techniques, and so on ! The improvement ideas must never end.

Hey Daris ! ….. please except my apology (for my part ) in bringing / continuing to have the CFI in this gun topic and about activating resentment feelings. How can I make this up ?
My intentions where one of promoting certifications in general and that they are a worth wild pursuit.

I think I threw that one in there.
It wasn't to discredit CFI or people who have completed the courses.
I'm just saying that it's not going to work every time be it CFI, electricians, plumbers, or gun classes.
There will be x amount of shady, sinister, or crazy people out there and that's never going to change. We all want the number to be zero but that's not realistic. One of the most dangerous things for a police officer is getting a call for an argument or between a couple. Emotions can cause a relatively sane person to go crazy. They were sane yesterday but they're insane today. No gun law will do anything in that circumstance.
The gun course is just not going to fix that.
A criminal who stole a gun or a gang banger..... again, not gonna fix that. Gun laws and gun rules go after law abiding citizens and are intended to make it more difficult to obtain a firearm. Gun courses can only go as far as showing safe handling of a firearm. How to unload it, how to load it, never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot. Ok, course over.
Is everyone going to be required to go to a psychiatrist and get tested for mental stability? That is absolutely never going to happen.
More prisons, and harsher sentences would be a good start.
How many times has someone gotten out of prison early, then killed or harmed somebody that very same with the next day? Every new gun law is for making it difficult for the average citizen to get a gun. People that think up these laws are anti-gun people.
They'll start by making it harder to get a gun, and when we get used to that, they'll create another law that says you can only purchase sertain types of firearms. Next you only be able to shoot it at shooting range.
Next and have to keep it locked up at the shooting range.
Society is what needs to be fixed.
I don't think you can force that class on anybody.

 

[MSLI]

People that think up these laws are anti-gun people.
They'll start by making it harder to get a gun, and when we get used to that, they'll create another law that says you can only purchase sertain types of firearms. Next you only be able to shoot it at shooting range.
Next and have to keep it locked up at the shooting range.
Society is what needs to be fixed.
I don't think you can force that class on anybody.

Lots of good stuff there Randy, and I like listening to the reality check. I admit, I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one
who ! thinks we can compromise in many areas that Tighten up security but doesn’t hinder good gun owners……However ! Compromise is a concept not fully understood by all. In order to understand it, I believe we need to step out of ourselves and give in to the 3 “ E’ s “ Experience compromise through Experimentation and then Evaluate.

My ideas on this subject are endless ! Story time : When I was 6 at summer camp, I was placed in the baby pool, even though I was an experienced swimmer. I asked the nuns, all dressed in black in the hot summer if I could be tested in 3’, 6’ and 12’ pools. The next day the life guard tested me and I became A Certifiable swimmer in all the different pools

All the existing gun owners over 40 ( let’s say ) have a gun purchasing history from the gun shops and for the most part can just stroll in with a shopping cart and not be hindered with their purchases. What I’m talking about are new gun owners with no history. Start them off with the BB GUN ! , Gun Safety course, MPPPP SQUAD Interview/ Testing/ Back Ground Test / Hunter Mentor Program/ AND YES ! New gun owners absolutely must keep their gun at the sponsor’s gun club until Certification process is completed.

PS> Thank You Very Much NRA ! I applaud you and I Care about your Second Amendment, now I challenge you to Tighten it up for NEW GUN OWNERS going forward. Please stop listening to the Spirited anti gun owners. All that does is create a negative fantasy and fear about what could happen not what is going to happen……do what needs to be sensibly done and keep going as the culture changes around the subject, loosening and tightening as needed.

 

[MSLI]

Society is what needs to be fixed.
I don't think you can force that class on anybody.

That’s a Big Yes Randy

We are not taught as a society how to manage our Anger and sometimes if we are lucky enough, we are just court ordered to take a class.

Maybe all new gun owners should take a Deescalation Anger Management class ?

We need to respect ‘ The Gun ‘ and what it stands for. Providing food, sport and defense and not Willy Nilly allow anyone access.

 

[Floorist]

That’s a Big Yes Randy

We are not taught as a society how to manage our Anger and sometimes if we are lucky enough, we are just court ordered to take a class.

Maybe all new gun owners should take a Deescalation Anger Management class ?

We need to respect ‘ The Gun ‘ and what it stands for. Providing food, sport and defense and not Willy Nilly allow anyone access.

Young black men are raised in a culture that thinks guns and drugs and shootings are normal. The majority are raised in a fatherless home. Since, they are responsible for most gun crimes that would need to be fixed. But it has been violent for at least 70 years. The welfare-state certainly did not help. Is there a fix? It does not seem so. Why should we law-abiding have to jump through hoops to own a gun when we are not the ones breaking the law.
I live in a small rural city where almost everyone owns a gun. No permit needed to carry one. There have been two shootings in my COUNTY in the last 10 years. And one of those was a homeowner shootiing two methed-up home invaders.
Most of these heavily publicized shootings are in "gun free" zones. And most shootings over all are in cities in the states with the strictest gun laws. An armed society is a polite society.

 

[Floorist]

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon.

 

[C.J.]

Bring back dueling!

 

[Dan]

 

[MSLI]

Since, they are responsible for most gun crimes that would need to be fixed. But it has been violent for at least 70 years. The welfare-state certainly did not help. Is there a fix? It does not seem so. Why should we law-abiding have to jump through hoops to own a gun when we are not the ones breaking the law.

I bet gun salespeople who sold guns that were used by desperate people to kill innocent civilians wish they had more hoops, for new customers to jump through.

 

[Floorist]

I bet gun salespeople who sold guns that were used by desperate people to kill innocent civilians wish they had more hoops, for new customers to jump through.

No matter what laws or restrictions you make, they won't affect criminals, only the people wanting to protect themselves. Like most politicians, you are looking for a "feel-good" law.

 

[MSLI]

No matter what laws or restrictions you make, they won't affect criminals, only the people wanting to protect themselves. Like most politicians, you are looking for a "feel-good" law.

Life long criminals, yes I would agree with that. Desperate young adults detached from reality for some reason, well they only became a criminal because we gave them the gun with reckless abandonment, trusting but not verifying their competence for what good reason would we want to continue with that ? Rusty ! Are you willing to try anything at the gun shop ? I already know about all the other stuff you have proposed and it’s all very sound and good. I’m not looking for feel good, I want boots on the ground, to profile new gun owners. Would you volunteer for that ? To be a part of the MPPPP SQUAD

 

[highup]

Young black men are raised in a culture that thinks guns and drugs and shootings are normal. The majority are raised in a fatherless home. Since, they are responsible for most gun crimes that would need to be fixed. But it has been violent for at least 70 years. The welfare-state certainly did not help. Is there a fix? It does not seem so. Why should we law-abiding have to jump through hoops to own a gun when we are not the ones breaking the law.
I live in a small rural city where almost everyone owns a gun. No permit needed to carry one. There have been two shootings in my COUNTY in the last 10 years. And one of those was a homeowner shootiing two methed-up home invaders.
Most of these heavily publicized shootings are in "gun free" zones. And most shootings over all are in cities in the states with the strictest gun laws. An armed society is a polite society.

You just describe 99% of the problem.

....okay 98% I was exaggerating.

 

[highup]

.....speaking of the NRA.



Well I suppose if criminals can do it you might as well let the honest people do it.

 

[MSLI]

Well I suppose if criminals can do it you might as well let the honest people do it.

Well ! I guess some action / Experiment is needed. Now for practical purposes, what do you do with your gun at the Winn-Dixie ? Does C.C. Allow you to cross into privately owed business’s ? If not, will they have a complimentary gun storage attendant. Just trying to think this thing through practically, because most shootings are in private places.

 

[Dan]

 

[Floorist]

Well ! I guess some action / Experiment is needed. Now for practical purposes, what do you do with your gun at the Winn-Dixie ? Does C.C. Allow you to cross into privately owed business’s ? If not, will they have a complimentary gun storage attendant. Just trying to think this thing through practically, because most shootings are in private places.

In Missouri, if you don't want customers who carry, you just put up a specific sign, and be prepared to go out of business. Even Walmart is afraid to put up a sign.

 

[JPfloor]

In Missouri, if you don't want customers who carry, you just put up a specific sign, and be prepared to go out of business. Even Walmart is afraid to put up a sign.

Sure, should be up to the owner to decide if they want guns on their property... The signs will come in handy for the crooks too…They’ll know which stores to rob…