Does anyone have any good or bad comments about vinyl planks? Allure, Konecto, etc. I have read of many failures, mostly when installed on concrete. Do you think it's the product or the installation since most failures seem to be DIY installations?
Vinyl Planks
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Twomly
Well-Known Member
Out of curiousity what are the failiures.
Mostly curling edges, adhesive not sticking.
I have never installed any Konecto, but adhesive not sticking and curling, like you said have been mentioned.
The local carpet one replaced the Konecto display with an Armstrong product that is similar. The samples in the display had curled just sitting there.
I don't know how that Armstrong product is working out for them. The store owner said you could unstick and re stick the planks as many times as you want to, meaning it would be easier to reposition a plank that got set in place slightly out of kilter.
Those products never really took off around here.
I've never installed them , no one here sells them. But they seem to be popular in some areas and HD seems to sell a lot of them.
Twomly
Well-Known Member
Tenting on ends is normally caused by the subfloor moving.
However, if you fit the LVT using F46 (PSA) then if ever it did tent (tenting through heat change will normally pop up one board on that row) you can simply pull that plank out and stick it in the guillotine and drop back in. I would much prefer to trim one or two boards rather than have to replace the whole floor because of gapping
The guide is, (simple guide) fit the product colder than what the rooms average temperature will be by a couple of degrees.
If the rooms average temp is 19c, and the LVT to be fitted is 24c (as been in back of van or stored in a warm place maybe) then obviously the LVT will shrink when fitted.
In conservatories you also need to take the subfloor temp! The subfloor may be 25c as the screed is absorbing the heat from the sun, but the air temp may only be 18c. You may have your product at 18c also, but you fit on the hot base, as you fit the lvt it will be starting to absorb the subfloor heat and growing. When the place cools down again the LVT will shrink also.
Treat a conservatory as if it has underfloor heating. YOU NEED THIS TURNED OFF ! You have to make sure you can keep the floor cool.
However, if you fit the LVT using F46 (PSA) then if ever it did tent (tenting through heat change will normally pop up one board on that row) you can simply pull that plank out and stick it in the guillotine and drop back in. I would much prefer to trim one or two boards rather than have to replace the whole floor because of gapping
The guide is, (simple guide) fit the product colder than what the rooms average temperature will be by a couple of degrees.
If the rooms average temp is 19c, and the LVT to be fitted is 24c (as been in back of van or stored in a warm place maybe) then obviously the LVT will shrink when fitted.
In conservatories you also need to take the subfloor temp! The subfloor may be 25c as the screed is absorbing the heat from the sun, but the air temp may only be 18c. You may have your product at 18c also, but you fit on the hot base, as you fit the lvt it will be starting to absorb the subfloor heat and growing. When the place cools down again the LVT will shrink also.
Treat a conservatory as if it has underfloor heating. YOU NEED THIS TURNED OFF ! You have to make sure you can keep the floor cool.
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It is my understanding, I could be wrong, but I read that Metroflor, the distributor of some of these vinyl planks admitted that they had problems with the adhesive on some planks. And I have no doubt that some of the failures were due to installaton errors, since most of this is/was sold to DIYers. And these were the floating installatons.
Twomly
Well-Known Member
I see we haven't got those here yet, I have heard rummors of trials though so shouldn't be to long before we have.
My post is regarding Amtico and Karndean, a friend of mine is working closely with them at the moment on this and soon their instalaltion litriture will be changed.
As many of you know, we sell Konecto on a national front so we have heard and seen it all.
There was an issue with the glue, then there was an issue with the curling core.
The glue issue was resolved and they installed a Fiberglass core to keep the plank from curling.
Konecto replaced every flawed job that was brought to their attention and was installed according to the manufacture specs.
There was a flurry DIYRs that did not follow the install specs and when their warranty issues were refused they came...unglued... pardon the pun.
There were also some retailers that were not following through with the customers complaints as their installers had improperly installed and they had no leg to stand on when an warranty arose, they choose to pass the buck to Metroflor and take no responsibility for their actions.
In the my 29 years in the trade I have never seen a floors that was this user friendly, this has allowed many homeowners to save money on their floors and has upset many installers and retailers that make money of their installers.
I have Konecto is three rooms in my house and in my showrooms and have never had a problem.
I did however see a problem on a job my crew installed in a restaurant in South Carolina.
The edges puckered in two areas on a 78 ct job, I filed a claim, Metroflor replaced 22 cartons and paid the labor to replace it.
The owner of the restaurant called me back a few months later with some puckering in another room, I personally went down there and found a heavy film of lime and standing moisture under the Konecto in this area, I replaced 5 cartons at no charge even though the original problem was his exterior wall was leaking under the floor when the Atlantic storms would blow through.
As we all know moisture is a deathwish under any floor.
Konecto has got a bad rap retailers that do not follow proper acclimation, expansion,rolling etc.
It has also been judge in the court of public opinion by websites that allow the same person to post many links on one job that failed in Alaska in 2008.
If you follow the proper install procedure and the floor fails, Konecto will honor their warranty, if not it is on you.
The sales of Konecto have saved over 4 million Board Ft of trees so the environmental aspect is relevant.
The DYIRs now have a floor they can install themselves so it has opened up a whole line home improvement aspects that were not available before.
There was an issue with the glue, then there was an issue with the curling core.
The glue issue was resolved and they installed a Fiberglass core to keep the plank from curling.
Konecto replaced every flawed job that was brought to their attention and was installed according to the manufacture specs.
There was a flurry DIYRs that did not follow the install specs and when their warranty issues were refused they came...unglued... pardon the pun.
There were also some retailers that were not following through with the customers complaints as their installers had improperly installed and they had no leg to stand on when an warranty arose, they choose to pass the buck to Metroflor and take no responsibility for their actions.
In the my 29 years in the trade I have never seen a floors that was this user friendly, this has allowed many homeowners to save money on their floors and has upset many installers and retailers that make money of their installers.
I have Konecto is three rooms in my house and in my showrooms and have never had a problem.
I did however see a problem on a job my crew installed in a restaurant in South Carolina.
The edges puckered in two areas on a 78 ct job, I filed a claim, Metroflor replaced 22 cartons and paid the labor to replace it.
The owner of the restaurant called me back a few months later with some puckering in another room, I personally went down there and found a heavy film of lime and standing moisture under the Konecto in this area, I replaced 5 cartons at no charge even though the original problem was his exterior wall was leaking under the floor when the Atlantic storms would blow through.
As we all know moisture is a deathwish under any floor.
Konecto has got a bad rap retailers that do not follow proper acclimation, expansion,rolling etc.
It has also been judge in the court of public opinion by websites that allow the same person to post many links on one job that failed in Alaska in 2008.
If you follow the proper install procedure and the floor fails, Konecto will honor their warranty, if not it is on you.
The sales of Konecto have saved over 4 million Board Ft of trees so the environmental aspect is relevant.
The DYIRs now have a floor they can install themselves so it has opened up a whole line home improvement aspects that were not available before.
Is that the official Kenecto/retailer response form? lol
]The sales of Konecto have saved over 4 million Board Ft of trees so the environmental aspect is relevant.
How do ya figure that? Because they picked out a wood look vinyl? What if they we're looking at a wood look laminate or tile even?
This figure is based on an average of total amount of Konecto sold giving allotments to each of the comparable flooring styles that apply.
Keep in mind: Every manufacture in the country has beat themselves to death to come up with a knock off of Konecto. Even Shaw, they introduced their Array line and it is made by Konecto.
Keep in mind: Every manufacture in the country has beat themselves to death to come up with a knock off of Konecto. Even Shaw, they introduced their Array line and it is made by Konecto.
So this environmental aspect. Is that about harvesting trees for wood flooring? Sounds to me like your saying thats a bad thing? What about all the petroleum they use to make it and the off gasing of plastic in your house?
No different than the formaldehyde off gassing from hardwood, I would be safe in saying the offgassing of wood is many times more than that of any Konecto since the vinyl componets are more static than wood.
The daily flexing ie; expansion and contracting with wood dicates it is not a stable as the vinyl.
If you care to discuss the chemical componets of what is put in the wearlayer of prefinished hardwood, you will find the Konecto has less in its wearlayer than that of wood yet has a 75% greater durablity and scratch resistance than wood due to high strength core.
If a woodlike floor is the choice, save a tree and buy Konecto.
The daily flexing ie; expansion and contracting with wood dicates it is not a stable as the vinyl.
If you care to discuss the chemical componets of what is put in the wearlayer of prefinished hardwood, you will find the Konecto has less in its wearlayer than that of wood yet has a 75% greater durablity and scratch resistance than wood due to high strength core.
If a woodlike floor is the choice, save a tree and buy Konecto.
I'm a proponet of natural VOC free finishes like Rubio Monocoat myself. Engineered hardwood is very stable and the one in my house is 35 years old, waxed finish.
Not that I don't believe that resilient vinyl planks have their place, I tell people who own rentals to buy it all the time.
And of course we all know vinyl planks have no issues at all acclimation, expansion and installation wise do we. (see qoute above)
Not that I don't believe that resilient vinyl planks have their place, I tell people who own rentals to buy it all the time.
And of course we all know vinyl planks have no issues at all acclimation, expansion and installation wise do we. (see qoute above)
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All one has to do is research DiButyl Phthalate and/or plastizers used in vinyl products to determine if they want that kinda stuff in their house.
>>In a study of 147 Russian workers exposed to several phthalate plasticizers in the artificial leather industry, significant adverse health effects were reported. The duration of employment was from 0.5 to 19 years, and the ambient air concentrations for the mixed phthalate esters varied from 1.7 to 66 mg/m(3). Beginning in the 6th to 7th year of work, pain, numbness, and spasms of the arms and legs were reported. This was followed by weakness of the extremities. Extensive neurological studies showed a 32 percent rate of polyneuritis among workers in the group studies [ACGIH 1991]. Women workers exposed to phthalates have been reported to have more menstrual disorders, miscarriages, reduced gestation and delivery rates than controls. Contact of the surface of the eye with DBP causes pain and tearing, but no permanent eye damage [Grant 1986].<<
>>In September 2000, researchers at the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that every single one of the 289 persons tested for the plasticizer dibutyl phthalate (DBP) had the compound in their bodies. The finding passed with little public fanfare, but surprised government scientists, who just one month earlier had rated DBP of little health concern based on the scientific assumption, which later turned out to be wrong, that levels in humans were within safe limits. DBP causes a number of birth defects in lab animals, primarily to male offspring, including testicular atrophy, reduced sperm count, and defects in the structure of the penis (CERHR 2000). Back to Top
The most critical population, women of childbearing age whose foetuses are exposed in the womb, appear to receive the highest exposures. Estimates based on data published by the same CDC researchers in October 2000, indicate that DBP exposures for 3 million women of childbearing age may be up to 20 times greater than for the average person in the population.
The highest exposure estimates for these women were above the federal safety standard (Blount et al 2000, Kohn et al 2000, EPA 1990). EPA rates their overall confidence in the safety standard as “low”, largely because it is based on a study published in 1953 that did not examine the test animals for the birth defects that concern scientists today (EPA 1990).
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Good information, Ernesto.
If ya like that this will make you and the guys freak a little bit. Don't look down after you read this. It coulda been you.....
Effects in immature male animals:
DBP exposure damages the testes, prostate gland, epididymus, penis, and seminal vesicles in laboratory animals see, for example, Mylchreest et al, 1998). These effects persist throughout the animals life, and include, specifically:
Testicular atrophy (the testes produce sperm and male sex hormones)
Hypospadias (a defect of the penis in which the opening occurs on the bottom of the penis instead of the tip)
Undescended testicles a condition in which the testes fail to descend into the scrotal sac during pregnancy.
Ectopic testes a condition in which testes are grown outside the scrotal sac
Absent testes testes are not formed at all
Absent prostate gland (the prostate gland contributes liquid secretions to semen)
Absent or small seminal vesicles (seminal vesicles, like the prostate gland, contribute liquid secretions to semen)
Reduced sperm count reduced fertility of offspring)
Malformed or absent epididymus (the epididymus is the structure where sperm mature and are stored)
Potential health effects of DBP continue to be significant for newborn animals who can be exposed to DBP by breathing phthalate-contaminated air, by touching things that contain phthalates, or by drinking their mothers milk, which can contain phthalates as a result of her exposures. In young lab animals, DBP has been shown to cause permanent testicular atrophy and reduced sperm counts (Foster et al 1981, Marsman 1995).
Effects in immature male animals:
DBP exposure damages the testes, prostate gland, epididymus, penis, and seminal vesicles in laboratory animals see, for example, Mylchreest et al, 1998). These effects persist throughout the animals life, and include, specifically:
Testicular atrophy (the testes produce sperm and male sex hormones)
Hypospadias (a defect of the penis in which the opening occurs on the bottom of the penis instead of the tip)
Undescended testicles a condition in which the testes fail to descend into the scrotal sac during pregnancy.
Ectopic testes a condition in which testes are grown outside the scrotal sac
Absent testes testes are not formed at all
Absent prostate gland (the prostate gland contributes liquid secretions to semen)
Absent or small seminal vesicles (seminal vesicles, like the prostate gland, contribute liquid secretions to semen)
Reduced sperm count reduced fertility of offspring)
Malformed or absent epididymus (the epididymus is the structure where sperm mature and are stored)
Potential health effects of DBP continue to be significant for newborn animals who can be exposed to DBP by breathing phthalate-contaminated air, by touching things that contain phthalates, or by drinking their mothers milk, which can contain phthalates as a result of her exposures. In young lab animals, DBP has been shown to cause permanent testicular atrophy and reduced sperm counts (Foster et al 1981, Marsman 1995).
Funny story; Awhile after I bought my new truck that "new vehicle" smell was waining. So instaed of buying a pretty flowery smell for my truck I bought the one that said "New Car Smell"! That was before I started reading about Phthalate's. I think that stuff was like pure phthalate's! LOL Smelled exactly like a new car or shower curtain. Kinda yellowish and greasy. Think I gonna die now!
