What did you do today?

[highup]

Zannej is that just a single layer of plywood? If so, how thick?
About the mud under the shower... this might help a little.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64553

I placed my MTI acrylic shower base into a bed of concrete -it made the base feel very secure and very solid (i.e. once the concrete had become hard).
Now, I followed the acrylic base manufacturer's suggestion of covering the wet bed of concrete with a sheet of 6-mil polyethylene (vapor barrier) sheet just before placing the shower base on top. This was an excellent suggestion. When I first stood on the base to "tamp" it down into the wet concrete bed, it occurred that there was a little too much concrete to allow the base to fully settle to the correct position. It was very easy to then temporarily remove the base - as there was no sticking to the concrete and there was no mess. I quickly pulled up the polythene sheet and redistributed the wet concrete as appropriate. I again covered the base with the sheet of polyethelene and tried again to embed the base into the concrete as before - it worked extremely well.
Now, after concrete curing, the polyethylene sheet will also act somewhat as a stress/stgrain "decoupler" between the concrete and the acrylic base - a good idea in itself.

 

[Nick]

I'm sorry to hear that. :-(
The 26th thing is an odd coincidence.

My friend's bathroom is coming along more.

He temporarily hooked up the shower to test it out. Still needs to put moisture barrier and stuff around and under where it is. Still need to paint the walls and get some more permanent flooring in once gaps and holes are sealed up.

Trying to figure out how to fill up this gap (there's nothing below this spot and it's actually larger than it looks) and what flooring to get. He can't afford anything pricey. I'm wondering if he could just paint it, because the sheet vinyl all seems to be too expensive. Couldn't find any remnants large enough. The room is almost 12'x9'.

But for now he can use the toilet and the shower. The old sink still works and he is trying to figure out how to detach it and cap off the old water supply lines that are leaking. He really likes the new vanity I found online. It's a lot sturdier than I expected for an MDF piece. Not bad for $49.

I've read that people are supposed to set showers in "mud" but I'm trying to remember if that is grout or mortar or something else. Anyone know?

Try stuffing it with steel wool Z, and flashing over it . mortar..

 

[highup]

One thing I noticed looking back at the earlier photos is that it is a single layer of plywood. For vinyl, it really ought to have two layers. With one layer, the seams will move or flex. I just noticed that the plywood runs the wrong direction to the joists, especially considering it's a single layer. A second layer would help correct that. Yes, I know that's expensive.
Plywood grain should run perpendicular to the joists for strength.
In the second photo, how is the seam in the plywood supported between the joists? (red circle)

 

[zannej]

Zannej is that just a single layer of plywood? If so, how thick?
About the mud under the shower... this might help a little.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=64553

Thanks! I remember John Bridge from the terrylove forums before he sort of got run off by an extremely rude poster there. John was always very nice and helpful. I think a lot of his installation discussions involve bases with tile walls. Since this is a one-piece fiberglass whole shower, I wonder if it needs some of the stuff. I saw that it needs a moisture barrier for about 18" diameter around the drain though (at least that's what I found on John's site when I looked last night).
It is one layer of plywood and I think it's 3/4" thick, but am not sure. It might be 5/8". He didn't have the budget for anything more.

One thing I noticed in the earlier photos is that it's single layer of plywood. For vinyl, it really ought to have two layers. With one layer, the seams will move or flex. I also noticed the plywood runs the wrong direction to the joists, especially considering it's a single layer. A second layer would help correct that.
Plywood grain should run perpendicular to the joists for strength.
In the second photo, how is the seam in the plywood supported between the joists? (red circle)

I think the main joists are running in the direction of the red arrow you've drawn. My friend wanted to run the boards all in the same direction, but his helper put them in differently. Because my friend had his upper arm break in half and wrist pretty much shattered about 2 years ago, he can't lift as much anymore and needs help with a lot of things.

They went under again and added some 2x4s for extra support under the boards. They still need to put in more reinforcements under the floor. Adding another layer is not an option for him at this point (well, not one that he'd be willing to go for because he doesn't plan to live her permanently). He's trying to spend as little $ as he can get away with and still have a functional place. I think he plans to use drywall tape and patch over the seams-- although in the past he has just put the vinyl sheet directly on top of seams and they showed- in some cases they even tore through the sheet. He's not picky about quality. As long as it doesn't collapse on him while he's there, he's ok with it.

I'm pickier so I would want things done right in my own home.

So, for vinyl sheet you need a double layer of flooring? Or would one 5/8" thickness suffice if the seams were taken care of? (I'm wondering since I will be replacing some floors in my house). I know my bathroom has 2 layers of plywood. My mother's has only one. I think the guest bath and laundry area might have 2 layers. Not sure on the thickness.

 

[highup]

I'm pickier so I would want things done right in my own home.

So, for vinyl sheet you need a double layer of flooring? Or would one 5/8" thickness suffice if the seams were taken care of? (I'm wondering since I will be replacing some floors in my house). I know my bathroom has 2 layers of plywood. My mother's has only one. I think the guest bath and laundry area might have 2 layers. Not sure on the thickness.

There's no way to totally stop seam movement in the plywood with a single layer. Even 1 inch plywood won't make a difference. There will be some flexing at the joist, and joist can move........ shrink/expand/wiggle
The plywood seams of the second layer are always offset from the first layer. By doing this, the seam movement from the first layer can't transfer to the top layer. It also strengthens the floor.
It takes very little flexing of the floor to crack the filler at a joint.
For your friend, I don't know if I'd waste time with the drywall tape. A loose layed vinyl would help hide movement.

 

[highup]

Couple weeks ago I scored on that $5 pressure washer. I was looking at the local Ace store for a wand for it. A guy I ran into said I ought to check out a garage sale near my house. He said mostly tools. I discovered mostly really old tools.
Anyhow, a cardboard produce box had misc stuff in it. Air tool fittings blow guns pressure gauges a small air filter/regulator engine compression gauge a reon regulator hose and gauge.......... stuff in the box was messy and had what looked to be Permatex #2 on a lot of it. ..messy and sticky. There was some thin strong 2 inch tow or hold down strap ......maybe for straps on a semi trailer.
What caught my eye was a cut off lower part of a plastic gallon cooking oil container. It had a lot of drill bits in it. I was about to ask how much the drill bits were and was told the entire box had to go. I noticed it said $5 written in Magic marker. They had five 1/2 inch Delta end mills (not carbide) for $15. 1/4" thru 1/2" They are in great shape and in a home made wood box.
Well took my box O crap home. Today I sorted through it. Drill bits are industrial stuff, all the same brand. They say HSS but look like cobalt.........8.5 lbs of em. Lots of duplicates. 1/16 to 5/8" very nice condition. A single 5/8 bit alone would cost more than $15
There are 1/2 dozen other bits that are larger. The 13/16 bit id Snap-On.
The air fittings cleaned up nice as did the gauges air filter, the USA made blow guns are non OSHA approved.... (unregulated flow) and a neat old tire gauge with a glass bezel. Bunch of neat stuff that I will definitely use. :birthday:

 

[Floorist]

Back in the old days, when Craftsman made good tools, we would hit hundreds of garage sales in KC. We bought all the broken wrenches we could buy for .25 or .50 cents each, take them to sears and trade them for new tools. When we sat up at a swap meet, we would make a killing on those new wrenches.

 

[zannej]

There's no way to totally stop seam movement in the plywood with a single layer. Even 1 inch plywood won't make a difference. There will be some flexing at the joist, and joist can move........ shrink/expand/wiggle
The plywood seams of the second layer are always offset from the first layer. By doing this, the seam movement from the first layer can't transfer to the top layer. It also strengthens the floor.
It takes very little flexing of the floor to crack the filler at a joint.
For your friend, I don't know if I'd waste time with the drywall tape. A loose layed vinyl would help hide movement.

Thanks for that info.
Just to clarify, would the top layer be laid out the same way as the bottom layer, or would I lay it perpendicular? And can I use a thinner layer on top than on bottom and still have it minimize the seam issue?

Couple weeks ago I scored on that $5 pressure washer. I was looking at the local Ace store for a wand for it. A guy I ran into said I ought to check out a garage sale near my house. He said mostly tools. I discovered mostly really old tools.
Anyhow, a cardboard produce box had misc stuff in it. Air tool fittings blow guns pressure gauges a small air filter/regulator engine compression gauge a reon regulator hose and gauge.......... stuff in the box was messy and had what looked to be Permatex #2 on a lot of it. ..messy and sticky. There was some thin strong 2 inch tow or hold down strap ......maybe for straps on a semi trailer.
What caught my eye was a cut off lower part of a plastic gallon cooking oil container. It had a lot of drill bits in it. I was about to ask how much the drill bits were and was told the entire box had to go. I noticed it said $5 written in Magic marker. They had five 1/2 inch Delta end mills (not carbide) for $15. 1/4" thru 1/2" They are in great shape and in a home made wood box.
Well took my box O crap home. Today I sorted through it. Drill bits are industrial stuff, all the same brand. They say HSS but look like cobalt.........8.5 lbs of em. Lots of duplicates. 1/16 to 5/8" very nice condition. A single 5/8 bit alone would cost more than $15
There are 1/2 dozen other bits that are larger. The 13/16 bit id Snap-On.
The air fittings cleaned up nice as did the gauges air filter, the USA made blow guns are non OSHA approved.... (unregulated flow) and a neat old tire gauge with a glass bezel. Bunch of neat stuff that I will definitely use. :birthday:

Excellent! I wish they had stuff like that at local garage sales. They mostly have baby clothes and useless junk.

 

[highup]

The people had a 24 by 50 shop cluttered with decades of old stuff..... lot of junk and jury rigged devices. Tables were set up outside. The walls had wooden shelves an peg board on the walls with lots of stuff I'd never use. The large number of 1/64th drills had me wondering ......why? Nothing is commonly used in that fraction. I got thinking maybe the guy used the 64th drills so he couple chase the drilled hole with the next size reamer for some precision holes.
......ok, so two questions. What was the old fella making and where were the reamers? Maybe he sold em Friday on the first day of the sale?
They has some air tools, grinders a couple of sets of banding crimpers, spokeshave a couple of saw blade tooth setting tools a 6 hp compressor. some cable, lots of steel scrap laying outside.
I didn't see airplane parts or lots of olive drab paint. No security warning signs, machine gun nests or guard houses in the trees nearby. So what was he doing in the shop?
The old fell, I suppose the shop owner lived in a motor home under cover of an attached carport. I'm guessing the younger people helping the sale were his son and grand kids? Anyhow, a much more fun sale than glass vases lamps shades and baby cloths.

 

[Floorist]

Probably 90% of the yard sales here are clothes and other crap. Clothes don't sell at all. It is rare to find any tools except old junk.

 

[Jon]

Paid for another cruise over Xmas leaving Auckland
Looks like I still have to carry on working for awhile yet
https://www.seabourn.com/details?we...ode=7792&selectedMeta=Veranda Suite&shipId=SE

 

[highup]

Paid for another cruise over Xmas leaving Auckland
Looks like I still have to carry on working for awhile yet
https://www.seabourn.com/details?we...ode=7792&selectedMeta=Veranda Suite&shipId=SE

My aunt has the same illness you do. Not cruises, but working to afford vacations.

 

[highup]

Thanks for that info.
Just to clarify, would the top layer be laid out the same way as the bottom layer, or would I lay it perpendicular? And can I use a thinner layer on top than on bottom and still have it minimize the seam issue?

Starting from the bare joists, it would be nice to see at the very least 1/2" on 16" centers would work, but I'd go at least to 5/8". 1/2 inch is skating on thin ice. 3/4" T&G would be way better. Thicker is always better. If the joists are wider than 16 on center, you need even thicker material.
Lay the subfloor perpendicular to the joists... that's really important for strength because the plywood has one more layer in length than width. That makes the plywood much more rigid if it's installed correctly.
Imagine the plywood grain as one of those exterior roll up bamboo window or deck shades. Another example might be a mini-blind for windows.
Imagine unrolling the bamboo shade or laying the mini-blind over the bare floor joists........... lay it parallel, them lay it perpendicular to the joists.
One way it lays over the joists like a limp blanket and layed the other way the shades will lay perfectly flat. That additional layer of veneer adds a lot of strength.
As for the underlayment... the thicker/stronger the subfloor is the thinner the underlayment could be. 5/8" subfloor and 3/8" underlayment would work. With 3/4" or thicker subfloor and 1/4" underlayment would work.
I suppose knowing the joist spacing is first on the list.

 

[Ernesto]

Paid for another cruise over Xmas leaving Auckland
Looks like I still have to carry on working for awhile yet
https://www.seabourn.com/details?we...ode=7792&selectedMeta=Veranda Suite&shipId=SE

Cool, now whats your home address again?

 

[highup]

Cool, now whats your home address again?

I bet he can't remember.

 

[DarisMulkin]

I bet he can't remember.

Given his age and never at home you are probably right. :camping:

Daris

 

[Nick]

We can kidnap him at a port of call.

 

[zannej]

Starting from the bare joists, it would be nice to see at the very least 1/2" on 16" centers would work, but I'd go at least to 5/8". 1/2 inch is skating on thin ice. 3/4" T&G would be way better. Thicker is always better. If the joists are wider than 16 on center, you need even thicker material.
Lay the subfloor perpendicular to the joists... that's really important for strength because the plywood has one more layer in length than width. That makes the plywood much more rigid if it's installed correctly.
Imagine the plywood grain as one of those exterior roll up bamboo window or deck shades. Another example might be a mini-blind for windows.
Imagine unrolling the bamboo shade or laying the mini-blind over the bare floor joists........... lay it parallel, them lay it perpendicular to the joists.
One way it lays over the joists like a limp blanket and layed the other way the shades will lay perfectly flat. That additional layer of veneer adds a lot of strength.
As for the underlayment... the thicker/stronger the subfloor is the thinner the underlayment could be. 5/8" subfloor and 3/8" underlayment would work. With 3/4" or thicker subfloor and 1/4" underlayment would work.
I suppose knowing the joist spacing is first on the list.

Thanks for explaining that. I thought I read somewhere (I could be wrong) that 24" on center was common for spacing and that if it was more than that, it would require thicker. I'm trying to remember my math. Both 5/8+3/8 and 3/4+1/4 equal 1 inch, right? I'd love to do tongue and groove if I could find it. I'm thinking 3/4" might be easier for me to manage than 5/8" because of the weight, but ultimately it depends on what is available in the store. I really hope they have tongue and groove for a reasonable price.

Just eyeballing it, I *think* the joists are 24" apart, but I'd really have to get under there and measure-- when I get my measuring tape back from my friend. He's borrowing a lot of my tools right now. Once the weather clears up and he's set with his place, he's going to help me with fixing this place up.

Should I do pressure treated for both layers or could I get the bottom layer pressure treated and top layer untreated? (Ideally, I'd like pressure treated for both).

I'm also considering just trying to find a way to rip up the luan I put the self-leveling stuff on and seeing if I can use it for a template for another piece and redo it. It might be easier in the long run than trying to smooth that crap out-- but the mixture covers most of the screws and I can't find my grinder.

Wish that garage sale with all the tools had been around here. That would have been awesome. I do like to go to flea markets though. Found some decent stuff at flea markets before. I got a chest of drawers made of solid wood at one of them. I hate particle board stuff.

Editing to add that 16" on center makes sense now when I read the boards are usually about 8'x4'. It would work for the 8' runs-- but it looks like I have 24 instead. Although, I could always add extra supports under the laundry area and tub. I'm hoping the existing joists will be in good shape, but I will probably need to to do something to make the floor level-- at least in the tub area.

 

[highup]

This is probably more than you asked for, but it's good info. I'm gonna save this one. Lots of good info for ya.
For 24" on center, 3/4 or thicker.
http://www.pfsteco.com/techtips/pdf/plywooddesignapplicationguide
I wouldn't use pressure treated for anything that is going to have vinyl over it. I'm not sure if it's safe for indoor use either. I'd contact the manufacture of the plywood and ask them what the preservative is and if it will stain the vinyl. Maybe there is a treatment that's safe for both indoor use and won't stain the vinyl over time. I just don't know about that sort of stuff because it's never used where I live.

 

[zannej]

This is probably more than you asked for, but it's good info. I'm gonna save this one. Lots of good info for ya.
For 24" on center, 3/4 or thicker.
http://www.pfsteco.com/techtips/pdf/plywooddesignapplicationguide
I wouldn't use pressure treated for anything that is going to have vinyl over it. I'm not sure if it's safe for indoor use either. I'd contact the manufacture of the plywood and ask them what the preservative is and if it will stain the vinyl. Maybe there is a treatment that's safe for both indoor use and won't stain the vinyl over time. I just don't know about that sort of stuff because it's never used where I live.

Thanks! I think pressure treated is used indoors a LOT around here because the climate is so damn humid. I read that it can be used for anything but countertops and cutting boards.
http://www.prowoodlumber.com/en/blog/2010/march/is-pressure-treated-wood-safe-for-indoor-use.aspx

My friend was pricing out materials to fix up his bathroom. He was looking for cementboard and drywall. I mentioned there's Greenboard (which apparently now comes in purple) so he asked for the price on that. My mother is offering to pay for stuff for him and he plans to help us out bigtime in return-- I believe he said something about if any of us ever needed a kidney.... LOL.

He just rescued a kitten from the storm so I got some food for it and held it. Adorable sweet little kitty. Moved some of his furniture from his grandparents' house. Got the computer, desk, two chairs (one of them is a powered recliner), and an electric fireplace looking heater thingy. Took two trips. His girlfriend discovered that I used to do therapeutic massage as a hobby (on family and friends-- although I once helped my boss with his shoulder) so she's been asking for back massages.

My friend's daughter who is about 5 now was visiting the grandparents and was very excited to see me. She ran up and jumped on me and then lifted her legs off the ground to hang from me. When I was sitting on the couch she pounced on me and discovered that she bounced when she bumped in to my chest so she started bouncing herself off of me until her great grandmother realized what she was doing and started yelling at her. I was just laughing too hard about it to care.

Meanwhile, the guy we sold the tractor to came by this morning (well, technically yesterday morning since it's after midnight) and cut the weeds back. When he came to bush hog a few days ago he killed two snakes and he was worried about us getting bitten if snakes were hiding in the weeds near the truck and porch. He really is a sweet man. He's always helping people out. One day I'll have to send him a thank you card.

Went from looking like this:

To this:

He was armed only with a weed eater and a machete. And that "pig grass" (really tall weeds with thick bases) are tough. My machete mostly bounced off of them. He probably would have gotten more done but it started raining.