Discussing politics and religion

[zannej]

Didn't our founders warn about the dangers of the two-party system? Yet, here we are. Stuck with a two party system & both sides are determined to keep it going-- because they literally made careers out of something that was just supposed to be a volunteer basis for the good of their country with a little stipend thrown their way to make up for the expense of travel or bc they had to miss work at their real jobs. The founders probably never imagined it would become what it is today.

I wonder if John McCain was just messing with that guy or if it was just an off/bad day for him. Most of the things I've heard about him indicate he was nice to people. His friendships were bipartisan & most of the people who worked with him have positive things to say about him-- even when they disagreed with his decisions. But, you never know what someone is like when the cameras are off.

As for the ACA thing, overturning it outright was not the right thing to do, IMO. I know a LOT of people who benefited from things in it-- and many of them are Republican. There were some bad things in it, but I think those things should have been changed rather than just throwing the whole thing out-- especially since at the time they were trying to do it, they didn't have a replacement plan. The fact that they were making themselves exempt from losing the benefits says that it wasn't all bad & they were acting for themselves & not for the good of the country.

 

[havasu]

I belong to a forum dedicated to the State of Arizona and so far, There are about 40 people who want to dance on the grave of McCain. That is pretty nasty but since he was an Arizona Senator, I figure these people know the true man, unlike just what we read.

 

[Nick]

They tortured the crap out of him.. gave him two operations with no pain meds .. There is a old black & white film of him confessing next to the enemy ..
Said he was near death when he did that .. May not of liked everything he did , But he was a good man ..

I like Heroes that get captured .. Beats some one who never served ..

 

[havasu]

That's a fact Nick.

 

[Ernesto]

More comments from another forum....

>directly led to the death of hundreds of servicemen
>condemned thousands more to Iraq/Afghanistan
>while simultaneously selling them out to their oppositionView attachment 7826

FALSE Hav Here's a couple places that have rebuked this picture. Tell the idiot that posted it to fact check. Boy, nothing pisses me off more than people posting sh$t thats easily fact checked.
And that pic was circulated in 2014

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/...cant-shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html

Also from a reddit forum:
Astral-kun

1 point·3 years ago·edited 3 years ago
These are the commanders of the National Coalition for Syrian Revolution and Opposition Forces.

“In coordination with the Syrian Emergency Task Force, Senator John McCain traveled to and from Syria with General Salim Idris, the chief of staff of the Supreme Military Council of the Syrian opposition, to meet with two senior Free Syrian Army commanders,”

.

Former imam of the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, Moaz al-Khatib, considered a moderate, was elected the president of the coalition, and resigned on 21 April 2013.[5] Riad Seif and Suheir Atassi, both prominent democracy activists and the latter a secular feminist, were elected vice presidents. The post of a third vice president will remain vacant for a Kurdish figure to be elected.[6] Mustafa Sabbagh was elected as the coalition's secretary-general.[7] The coalition has a council of 114 seats, though not all of them are filled.[1]

These people are like the most secular democratic guys around and some died for it. Sorry, this is probably the 10th time I've seen someone use ISIL victims as 'potential ISIL?'

Now that you know, so I suggest moving on. It turns my stomach to see someone using the dead like this.

 

[havasu]

I agree Ern, the guys on that forum are brutal. I have no control with what is posted, but this is an Arizona based forum.

 

[Ernesto]

Here's another popular myth dubuked. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/john-mccain-fire-uss-forrestal/

 

[zannej]

Maybe the folks in Arizona just didn't like his political decisions. Just bc they were in the same state doesn't mean they knew him. It's not a small state. But, you never know.

Nick, I completely agree. I know military service is not for everyone and some couldn't join for legitimate medical reasons, but I don't like draft dodgers who lied to get out of military service. My father's childhood best friend was drafted-- he could have fled to Canada. But he went anyway knowing that he was going to die. He wasn't in 'nam for very long before he got hit with white phosphorus and died.

 

[DarisMulkin]

Maybe abolish parties and we can just vote on a persons beliefs and promises.

And get rid of the electoral college.

 

[Nick]

And get rid of the electoral college.

Been saying that for years Daris ..

 

[Nick]

Sorry to hear that Z .. I know if they tortured me like JM, I'd tell them where E trough the snake , and not to try and steal Florrest's Van , it doesn't start ..

 

[highup]

And get rid of the electoral college.

The states with large populations would own the elections. You want California voting for your state? ...eeew!
In reality, the people that want a popular vote, are the people that think Hillary won because she won the popular vote.
If we had a popular vote she wouldn't have won by that 2 million or whatever.
...because we had a popular vote, neither candidate would have campaigned in most of our states. 50% of our population resides in a just 12 states. They would have both focused most of their campaigning in those states.
23 states contain 1% or less of the US population. ....so basically, those states wouldn't count much... 23 states that don't have much of a say.
That's why we do it the way we do it.
So anyway, the vote would have come out totally different and it's not predictable after the fact.

 

[highup]

https://blog.oup.com/2016/12/three-fallacies-popular-vote-electoral-college/

"The constitution ensures that large populated states (California and New York) do not have more power than those who live in Wyoming and other small populated states. If that happens, would those living in less populated states become slaves of those living in highly populated states? The states with a large population would consistently be deciding the presidential race. The electoral college was about the highly populated states not controlling the nation and the US becoming a one party system."

 

[zannej]

So, Trump didn't want the White House flag flying at half-mast for McCain & it was put back up to full again-- although apparently someone else issued an order to put it back down (or so I'm hearing).
Also hearing that the White House wanted to issue a statement about McCain calling him a "hero" but Trump nixed it. From everything I've heard about Trump he is a very bitter vindictive man who will seek revenge on people for various reasons. Back in 1996, McCain opposed the govt guaranteeing a loan for Trump. I think that might explain why Trump hates McCain so much and refuses to honor him.

And it could be wrong, but I've heard rumors that the DOJ might indict Don Jr this week. I'm skeptical, but I'll wait and see.

 

[Nick]

McCain has been very vocal about Russia .. Take it from there ..

 

[Floorist]

Trump refused to let the White House flags be lowered to half staff for McCain. What a petty little man.

 

[Nick]

You give him to much credit .. He is not a man ..

 

[Floorist]

There was such an outcry that the flags were lowered again.

 

[Nick]

The norm is to keep it at half mass until he his buried ..

 

[havasu]

Yeah, that was very embarrassing for those of us who support his ideas.